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-   -   iPad coming to Europe May 28. Pricing Revealed (http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71947)

jmke 7th May 2010 15:20

iPad coming to Europe May 28. Pricing Revealed
 
We knew it was coming end of May, now we have a date: May 28th and up for pre-order on May 10th. That's when the iPad will hit Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Spain, Switzerland and the UK. It lands in Austria, Belgium, Hong Kong, Ireland, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand and Singapore in July.
* 16GB WiFi-only 479
* 32GB WiFi-only 579
* 64GB WiFi-only 679
* 16GB WiFi+3G 579
* 32GB WiFi+3G 679
* 64GB WiFi+3G 779
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/07/i...-go-on-may-28/

thorgal 7th May 2010 16:43

Pricing is wrong !!

Only Spain (less VAT) has these prices, France, Italy : all €499 and up.

jmke 7th May 2010 16:52

so add €20 ;)
too expensive anyway...

thorgal 7th May 2010 17:01

Don't agree. Let's first see other manufacturers bringing something similar to the market but cheaper. So far it hasn't happened.

jmke 7th May 2010 17:14

que?

you don't find an oversized iPhone (without the phone capability) and with only 64gb too expensive at €800?

coo coo

jmke 7th May 2010 17:21

iPad :



:D

wutske 7th May 2010 17:59

iPad pricing has never made sense in my humble opinion. It's nothing but a huge iPhone which you can't even use to call someone with (except with Skype of course).
A lot of cheaper tablets have been announced lately and it probably won't take too long before the market get flooded with cheap tablets ;)

thorgal 9th May 2010 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257769)
que?

you don't find an oversized iPhone (without the phone capability) and with only 64gb too expensive at 800?

coo coo

I do not find the 16gb version at 499 too expensive, no. The added cost for extra space or 3G capabilities is imo not justified, the base cost is. They do make a lot of profit on top of the parts cost but the R&D that has gone into it cannot be underestimated.

I'm curious what the competition will bring to the table. No doubt it'll boast better hardware (or it won't sell at all), but the value will have to be in the software. Windows 7 is not an option tablet wise, you need something in between a "normal" OS and a "phone" (nexus or iphone or windows phone 7) OS.

jmke 9th May 2010 17:10

Quote:

I do not find the 16gb version at €499 too expensive, no.
like I said "coo coo".

Quote:

They do make a lot of profit on top of the parts cost but the R&D that has gone into it cannot be underestimated.
they're reusing software and hardware from the iphone and ipad, increase the size and tweak it a bit.
mucho R&D.

Quote:

Windows 7 is not an option tablet wise
I'd rather have access to a fully fledged OS, with a fancy UI skin, but still all the meat of the real OS behind it.

thorgal 9th May 2010 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257820)
like I said "coo coo".

I think you lost too much sleep lately. You're talking babyspeak already :-p


Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257820)
they're reusing software and hardware from the iphone and ipad, increase the size and tweak it a bit.
mucho R&D.

There's not a single piece of hardware corresponding between ipad and iphone. Not one piece. Software is alike, but different enough to take lots of R&D. None of the applications they include (other than OS) are the same either, all rewritten for the larger screen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257820)
I'd rather have access to a fully fledged OS, with a fancy UI skin, but still all the meat of the real OS behind it.

OK, I'm with you, but you're dreaming. A full OS will eat way too much resources : never in your life you'll be getting any decent battery life, or if you do, the thing will weight a ton and not be comparable size wise.

wutske 9th May 2010 18:29

R&D wise they didn't do a lot. The iPhone apps on the iPad either run at normal resolution (only using a small portion of the screen) or are upscaled using the most simplistic algoritm, they didn't even try to increase the text size in the applications ... they simply take a screenshot of the app and then upscale it.
Seriously, Apple grew up as the product to buy when it came to image processing and now they can't even descently upscale an image ?

I'd also prefer Windows7 over the iPhone OS. Paying $499 for doing only the things that Apple would want you to do is way to much for me. Out of the box, you can do nothing with this thing but surfing the internet, checking your e-mail, watching a movie or listen to an mp3... and that's exactly what about every mobile phone can do today. So basically, it's a phone with a huge screen and you can't make calls with it.

thorgal 9th May 2010 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutske (Post 257826)
R&D wise they didn't do a lot. The iPhone apps on the iPad either run at normal resolution (only using a small portion of the screen) or are upscaled using the most simplistic algoritm, they didn't even try to increase the text size in the applications ... they simply take a screenshot of the app and then upscale it.
Seriously, Apple grew up as the product to buy when it came to image processing and now they can't even descently upscale an image ?

This is true, but you're shooting at the wrong firm. The applications you refer to are written by other people, not Apple. They still have to adapt their software (if they choose to of course) to the larger screen. As I wrote : Apple already rewrote most of their apps (the ones they include anyway) for the larger screen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutske (Post 257826)
I'd also prefer Windows7 over the iPhone OS. Paying $499 for doing only the things that Apple would want you to do is way to much for me. Out of the box, you can do nothing with this thing but surfing the internet, checking your e-mail, watching a movie or listen to an mp3... and that's exactly what about every mobile phone can do today. So basically, it's a phone with a huge screen and you can't make calls with it.

... and you can read books on it in a decent way. Same for movies and surfing the internet. Surfing, watching or reading on a smartphone is of course possible, but not exactly something I enjoy because of the much too small screen.

jmke 9th May 2010 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorgal (Post 257825)
OK, I'm with you, but you're dreaming. A full OS will eat way too much resources : never in your life you'll be getting any decent battery life, or if you do, the thing will weight a ton and not be comparable size wise.

I respectfully disagree... proof: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2890/6


ipad browsing: 584min
asus netbook browsing: 590min

thorgal 9th May 2010 19:08

OK, you prove my point exactly : you're comparing a bulky (1654cm3) and heavy (1,5kg) netbook to a sleek (617cm3) and light (0,68kg) touch device.

Great comparison :rolleyes:

I'm not saying ipad is perfect. Very far from it. I'm saying it's a compromise. It's the best thing to do what it does (which is more limited than a netbook, I agree). But I also agree with Apple when they say that netbooks are good at nothing. Too small to do serious work, too bulky to be a simple content provider. Again I'm not saying netbooks are unable to be a (reasonably good) content provider, I'm saying ipad is better at it.

jmke 9th May 2010 20:56

are you a 6yr old girl?

1.5kg is not heavy.

thorgal 9th May 2010 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257830)
are you a 6yr old girl?

1.5kg is not heavy.

Oh come'on, you get the point. You want to compare 1.5kg devices, plenty of choice in that section. Keep the comparison fair. For 1.5kg, Apple could've made a 30hour battery ipad, they chose not to.

jmke 9th May 2010 22:02

Quote:

But I also agree with Apple when they say that netbooks are good at nothing
apple != right.

all netbooks need is 720p resolution, and a faster CPU/dedicated video GPU and they are good to go :)
you can already have that, but it costs $500; that's too much.

$350 is a sweet price for a netbook , and apple's pricing for their useless at anything except surfing ipad is just ridiculous high, you agreeing with their price policy = coo coo. And it has nothing to do with how many hours of sleep I get ;)

if apple wants to push a limited netbook, none-PC thing , at least get the pricing right, $250 for entry model, $500 for top end. they'll make more money that way because they would simply sell more.

reference: Wii.

thorgal 9th May 2010 22:24

Couldn't disagree more.

Give netbooks higher resolution on the same screen and they'll just suck some more at getting work done. The screen size is just too small (not to mention the dot pitch will be useless with increased resolution), the keyboard is worthless to type on (because keys are too small). Increase them in size and you have a plain notebook. Netbooks are just a bad excuse to offer cheap notebooks, nothing more.

Again, you're comparing an ipad to a netbook. It is not a netbook and is not intended to be one. It is competition to the netbooks because all what people do on netbooks is surf the internet or watch a movie. They just suck completely at anything else. iPad is better at those limited areas. Don't expect to get any work done on an iPad, even less than on a netbook...

jmke 10th May 2010 05:47

Quote:

Couldn't disagree more.
it seems you can though.

Quote:

Give netbooks higher resolution on the same screen and they'll just suck some more at getting work done. The screen size is just too small (not to mention the dot pitch will be useless with increased resolution), the keyboard is worthless to type on (because keys are too small). Increase them in size and you have a plain notebook. Netbooks are just a bad excuse to offer cheap notebooks, nothing more.
KVM.

wutske 10th May 2010 10:46

@thorgal: it appears that many people think the iPad is too heavy because you have to hold it all the time. I won't hear people complain about a 1,5kg netbook because you can put it on a table and still be able to use it.

You can indeed watch movies on the iPad, but only a few codecs are supported by the iPad, something a netbook won't suffer from. You can use AirVideo (or whatever it's called) to stream the video to the Ipad, but then you'll need a fast computer running somewhere at home that can convert the video's in real-time or you convert them before you put them in the iPad, but that's just a waste of time in my humble opinion. Copying the movie to a netbook is still a lot faster.

jmke 10th May 2010 11:01

no need to copy, just run the movie from USB stick :-)
iPad is way too expensive for what it is.

thorgal 10th May 2010 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by wutske (Post 257848)
@thorgal: it appears that many people think the iPad is too heavy because you have to hold it all the time. I won't hear people complain about a 1,5kg netbook because you can put it on a table and still be able to use it.

You can indeed watch movies on the iPad, but only a few codecs are supported by the iPad, something a netbook won't suffer from. You can use AirVideo (or whatever it's called) to stream the video to the Ipad, but then you'll need a fast computer running somewhere at home that can convert the video's in real-time or you convert them before you put them in the iPad, but that's just a waste of time in my humble opinion. Copying the movie to a netbook is still a lot faster.

You can put an ipad on the table and still be able to use it.... haven't read any real complaints about weight honestly, I did read that the weight was "more than expected" and takes some getting used to.

The other remark is justified though : Apples proprietary system works on many peoples nerves, including mine. You can of course convert any movie to the right format, but that's a pain. Just a matter of time though until the right jailbreak appears, and all codecs are supported.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257849)
no need to copy, just run the movie from USB stick :-)
iPad is way too expensive for what it is.

The lack of a USB port cannot be forgiven though, I agree with you there. Other than that, I still haven't read any serious argument to explain why the ipad is overpriced. Show me one other touch device with 9,5" or more for $500 or less. Silence...

Kougar 10th May 2010 11:55

If we are going to compare an iPad to a netbook... the netbook is going to have a small keyboard, but it at least HAS a keyboard to type on. Typing notes on an iPad isn't going to work especially if you have to hold it at the same time. A person could never keep up with a speaker when dictating notes.

By the time I graduated last year almost every student had a netbook or a notebook just for taking notes and viewing course content. Macbook or PC.... they didn't use their iPhones and won't be using their iPads for the same purpose.

Netbooks solve a market demand, that's why they are still around and will still continue to exist for years.... netbooks won't vanish unless notebooks continue to drop in price. That we are seeing CULV notebooks around the $500 mark is evidence enough there used to be a huge pricing gap. I'd prefer a CULV notebook over any netbook today, but the iPad is a different product. It's not a device for doing work, only consuming content.

thorgal 10th May 2010 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kougar (Post 257852)
If we are going to compare an iPad to a netbook... the netbook is going to have a small keyboard, but it at least HAS a keyboard to type on. Typing notes on an iPad isn't going to work especially if you have to hold it at the same time. A person could never keep up with a speaker when dictating notes.

By the time I graduated last year almost every student had a netbook or a notebook just for taking notes and viewing course content. Macbook or PC.... they didn't use their iPhones and won't be using their iPads for the same purpose.

Netbooks solve a market demand, that's why they are still around and will still continue to exist for years.... netbooks won't vanish unless notebooks continue to drop in price. That we are seeing CULV notebooks around the $500 mark is evidence enough there used to be a huge pricing gap. I'd prefer a CULV notebook over any netbook today, but the iPad is a different product. It's not a device for doing work, only consuming content.

This is what I'm trying to say for a few pages now. iPads are not netbooks, they're merely competing in the "consuming content" department. I've never understood the interest in netbooks at all (compared to other notebooks that is). I just see them as an effort to make notebooks cheaper.

jmke 10th May 2010 12:30

Quote:

Show me one other touch device with 9,5" or more for $500 or less.
Silence...
silence? lol... give people a chance to reply before you claim "silence"
€480 10" netbook with touchscreen.
http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/04/te...creen-netbook/


€500+ iPad with 16Gb is too much money for what you get in return, a glorified pictureframe.

thorgal 10th May 2010 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257855)
silence? lol... give people a chance to reply before you claim "silence"
480 10" netbook with touchscreen.
http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/04/te...creen-netbook/

Make that 480 excluding tax!

jmke 10th May 2010 12:35

yes... €580 with tax, for a 10" touchscreen with 160gb HDD
Ipad equivalent offers max 64gb and costs €700+.

sure.. iPad is not overpriced.

I'm no mac hater, but you sure are a mac lover.

thorgal 10th May 2010 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257857)
yes... €580 with tax, for a 10" touchscreen with 160gb HDD
Ipad equivalent offers max 64gb and costs €700+.

sure.. iPad is not overpriced.

I'm no mac hater, but you sure are a mac lover.

Oh really, and that's for a 160Gb SSD no doubt :rolleyes: Apples to oranges.

Mac lover... really : that's what all those PC boys say when they run out of things to bash on :p Apple bashing is very trendy right now, that's for sure.

Edit : You of all people know my background. I've got at least as many PC's as Macs. I've worked with Mac's for almost 25 years now, but never has there been reason to criticize them more than today. I'm very much open to critique when it gets to Apple. They're way too cocky right now, and their arrogance is extremely annoying. But I don't have any trouble to admit when they've done something right as well. And whatever you say, iPad exactly hits "the spot" ;)

wutske 10th May 2010 12:42

If you put an iPad on a table and you want to use it, you'll have to bend over in order to read what's on the screen (the viewing angle seems to be very good, but don't forget the reflecting piece of glass put in front of that screen). It's not ergonomical and it'll ruin your back ;)

I think I've read many reasons why the iPad is too expensive, but the main reason seems to be that you pay much more for it than what a netbook costs, yet you can only do half of what a netbook can do and you are so bound to Apple's demands. The few advantages (dimensions, battery life, 3G, weight) don't justify the price at all.

The pricings don't seem make any sense either. Just look at them, they charge you €100 for an extra 16GB of storage and yet another €100 if you want 3G. You can buy a 3G phone with a 16Gb SSD card for that amount of money ! €479 would be justified if it had like 128Gb of storage and if you'd be able to access it as a USB drive (so you're not limited to iTunes to copy your data).

wutske 10th May 2010 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorgal (Post 257858)
Oh really, and that's for a 160Gb SSD no doubt :rolleyes: Apples to oranges.

Mac lover... really : that's what all those PC boys say when they run out of things to bash on :p Apple bashing is very trendy right now, that's for sure.

Edit : You of all people know my background. I've got at least as many PC's as Macs. I've worked with Mac's for almost 25 years now, but never has there been reason to criticize them more than today. I'm very much open to critique when it gets to Apple. They're way too cocky right now, and their arrogance is extremely annoying. But I don't have any trouble to admit when they've done something right as well. And whatever you say, iPad exactly hits "the spot" ;)

One word: Flash ;)

They say flash is bad and that HTML5 is taking over the web, but unfortunately, flash still rocks the web. It's also extremely lame that they are working on their own flash/silverlight like platform. This I find unacceptable because it's yet another attempt to take controll over something.

It's obvious that people are bashing on Apple lately. They just want to control everything and they're not subtle like Google. That's why people are bashing on Apple, nobody likes their freedom taken away, especialy not by a fruit :p

thorgal 10th May 2010 12:56

I absolutely agree with you on Flash. It should be the people's choice if they want to use it or not. If it impacts battery life or stability then people can choose not to use it. But there should be choice.

The lack of flash has nothing to do with battery life or stability though, it's Apple's way of keeping their system closed... In that way I thought Jobs "letter on flash" was hilarious. He's trying to justify Apple's greed...

The lack of flash still doesn't diminish iPad's form factor or easy of use, and the fact that it's the perfect tool to do the (limited) things that it does. More so than any netbook.

wutske 10th May 2010 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorgal (Post 257861)
I absolutely agree with you on Flash. It should be the people's choice if they want to use it or not. If it impacts battery life or stability then people can choose not to use it. But there should be choice.

The lack of flash has nothing to do with battery life or stability though, it's Apple's way of keeping their system closed... In that way I thought Jobs "letter on flash" was hilarious. He's trying to justify Apple's greed...

The lack of flash still doesn't diminish iPad's form factor or easy of use, and the fact that it's the perfect tool to do the (limited) things that it does. More so than any netbook.

No doubt that it will impact battery life, it's not that it's the most lightweight platform, especially when it comes to playing video. You're indeed right, about the fact that the user should be able to have the option to enable flash. If I remember correctly, you can enable flash support on an iPhone, but that requires you to jailbraik it.
Still, the price is too high, but that's usualy the case with every new product. First you rip off the early adopters before making it available for the mass market :p .

jmke 10th May 2010 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorgal (Post 257858)
Oh really, and that's for a 160Gb SSD no doubt :rolleyes: Apples to oranges.

that write/read speed of that 2.5" laptop HDD will be higher than that low end SSD.

Quote:

Mac lover... really : that's what all those PC boys say when they run out of things to bash on :p Apple bashing is very trendy right now, that's for sure.
no it's not. you are blinded by your apple love, claiming a tablet PC with limited options is worth $500+ , while in reality it's WAY too expensive for what you get.

thorgal 10th May 2010 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257865)
that write/read speed of that 2.5" laptop HDD will be higher than that low end SSD.

Proof ?

Anyway, you're back to comparing a netbook to the ipad, which is no comparison at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257865)
no it's not. you are blinded by your apple love, claiming a tablet PC with limited options is worth $500+ , while in reality it's WAY too expensive for what you get.

For me, a device with the capabilities, form factor, ease of use and way of interacting with of the ipad is worth 499, absolutely. So it is for millions of other people. Who are you to say otherwise ? Also for me, a netbook is not worth 350, or even 299 for that sake.I have no interest in a netbook in whatever form. To you this can be different.

jmke 10th May 2010 14:24

Quote:

Anyway, you're back to comparing a netbook to the ipad, which is no comparison at all.
a device which is compact, doesn't weigh a lot, allows to play media files, surf the web over WIFI or 3G.

yes I think that describes iPad... AS WELL AS A NETBOOK.

but hey... "iPad is not comparable to anything so must pay a premium for it", right?

NOPE.

if you you are happy paying $500+ for a 16gb media player... that's your choice, but don't start stating fact that it's worth that price, while clearly it's an overpriced picture frame... .. no wait.. a picture frame has WIFI and USB ports.

Quote:

Also for me, a netbook is not worth €350, or even €299 for that sake
agreed, would love to see them come in at $250 or lower. Budget notebooks are currently in the $500 range and the netbooks are not cheap enough.


but who am I wanting more product for less money. I should be like you, wanting to pay more for less.

piotke 10th May 2010 14:26

I agree with everithing Thorgal says :)

JMke, you're a Apple / mac hater ;-)

jmke 10th May 2010 14:33

no I'm not a Apple/Mac hater. Please quote me where I say iPad is bad or sucks? i'm not discussing the product.

all I'm pointing out is that it's bad value at the suggested price point. nothing more, nothing less. IYou're just also brainwashed into thinking that an oversized iPod with only 16gb is worth $500

make it $250 and I'll consider buying one :)

thorgal 10th May 2010 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257867)
a device which is compact, doesn't weigh a lot, allows to play media files, surf the web over WIFI or 3G.

yes I think that describes iPad... AS WELL AS A NETBOOK.

*Sigh* We're back at square one : netbooks are NOT comparable in size or weight. If Apple wanted to build something as bulky (all things considered) as a netbook, they would have. It would have featured a full OS then, or even better battery life instead. But they clearly chose not to build a product like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke (Post 257867)
if you you are happy paying $500+ for a 16gb media player... that's your choice, but don't start stating fact that it's worth that price, while clearly it's an overpriced picture frame... .. no wait.. a picture frame has WIFI and USB ports.

Last time I looked every iPad had wifi, but surely not every picture frame :p And it's exactly this kind of sloganesk speech that gives people the name "Apple haters". If you write that iPad is not a bad product per se (not talking price then), why rate it as a picture frame then ? You can find some for €25 at your local kruidvat if you like ;)

jmke 10th May 2010 15:04

Quote:

why rate it as a picture frame then ?
because that's basically what it is, a souped up picture frame. It's not a bad product, it has it limits, it would be nice to have USB, but no worries, WIFI is good enough. but don't price it up this much, $500 is too much for what this device can do.

if you look at what this device can do, and look up a product which has the same/more features, you'll find that such a device is <$400. So PRICE WISE, IPAD as a product, is priced too high;

FOR ME, two things should change;
- EITHER decrease the price to match the feature set
- OR increase the feature set to match the price

:)

if HP Slate was released at same price point with same feature set, I would use the exact same arguments. So this is no "mac hate".

Kougar 10th May 2010 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorgal (Post 257853)
I just see them as an effort to make notebooks cheaper.

That is basically all that they are. Netbook = ultracheap notebook. Very many people can't afford a full notebook but need one for mobile document work or taking notes.

Before netbooks came about, the cheapest notebooks had hardware so stripped down that they offered almost no battery life whatsoever. Tiny batteries, power hogging processors (using last gen parts and process nodes), and large screens all didn't help. But not many people realized that back then mobile Celerons have Speedstep disabled and often lacked power management.

Take a full size laptop, cut the battery capacity in half, use a slow Celeron processor, and remember that Speedstep is disabled by Intel so the CPU runs at full speed/voltage, and you should see why netbooks became such a hit. At the time Netbooks offered as good or better performance, much better battery life and all at cheaper prices.


As far as the iPad price goes... it is well known that Apple targets a 50% gross margin on all their products. So yes, I'm sure the iPad is overpriced. Why even argue a netbook would be better... you can buy a full 12-13.3" CULV notebook for the same price as an iPad. That says it all right there.


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