Manufacturer roadmaps to keep in mind when building a new PC
 

I've been looking around to buy a new computer somewhere this year. Once upon a time, I could've rambled off the best price/quality build without thinking about it, but I've been letting myself slide on the hardware front (work keeps me more than busy enough). :)

The main question is if there are any releases planned which would be useful to keep in mind when building a new gaming rig this year (pref this summer)?
I know Intel will release a new/updated chipset in Q2 2011, so maybe that's worth waiting for? I don't think there's any earth shattering CPU releases, though, but the newly announced chipset seems 'enthousiast'-friendly.
Are there any Nvidia or ATI/AMD gfx releases that I should keep track of?


As for those who want to comment on the rig itself, I really haven't settled on much, so tips are welcome:
CPU: Biased towards Intel.
CPU cooler: No bias, but pref something that runs quiet that can also dish out solid cooling when needed (rheo). Probably some Zalman model.
Mobo: No bias at all, but likely one with the new Intel chipset?
RAM: 12 or 16 GB RAM, no specifics in mind.
GFX: No bias, but I see no use in going for SLI or Crossfire from the start. Something that's not very loud when idle would be nice, but needs some gaming horsepower.
SSD: 120-128Gb SSD probably, maybe something like the Intel 320/510 or OCZ Vertex 3? Or Revodrive once they finally support TRIM (v 3).
HDD storage: 2x 2Tb (RAID 1) or 4x 1Tb disks (RAID 10 or 2x1 + 2x1) for redudant storage. Pref 24/7 certified disks that aren't too loud, probably WD or Seagate, I guess.
Optical drives: Doesn't matter much, we'll see about that later.
Case: I have a Chieftec CH-01B-B-SL that I'm looking to trade for something better (quieter?). Fractal Design seems to have some interesting cases (the XL would probably be overkill, but Define R3 seems nice). Alternatives are welcome. The bigger the fans (low noise, manual speed control) & the more sound dampening the better (while still being gaming performance setup compatible ofc). The less attentionwhore crap and lights the better. ;)
Fan controller: I'll probably need something flat? The Fractal Design cases (and many others) are not compatible with rheos that have knobs, door simply won't close... A bit of a design oversight if you ask me. The Chieftec can handle my sunbeam rheo just fine. Again, a fan controller with as little bling bling as possible is preferred, but it requires sufficient independent channels (with capability to handle multiple fans on the same channel).
PSU: No bias, but pref something that runs quiet while still suited for hot environments (LANs etc). Absolutely no use for bling bling on the PSU. Bonus points for high efficiency and good wire management.
Soundcard: I still have an Audigy (on PCI), but it's old. I presume current chipsets will give similar quality. Probably no longer useful to have a discrete soundcard?
OS: Win 7 Prof UK?

Budget is somewhere between 1300-1700 euros, maybe more if something is really worth considering.

PS: Do PCI-E SSDs like the Revodrive (PCI-E 4x) endanger response times on modern GFX cards (PCI-E 8x - 16x) since they share the bus? Is there any practical performance hit on that front?

at the upper high end, Intel will release new CPU and socket, as S1366 is EOF

CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 2 with correct socket mounting, extremely good price/performance balance;

SSD: Intel 128gb is best buy according to Anandtech

PCIe drives don't impact GFX performance as far as I know?

16 lane slot (each direction):
v1.x: 4 GB/s (32 Gbit/s)
v2.x: 8 GB/s (64 Gbit/s)
v3.0: 16 GB/s (128 Gbit/s)

PCIe SSD can reach 1.6GB ? V2 has 8gb, latest 16Gb/s!

You could also stick with the just released Intel Z68 chipset which is an upgrade for the LGA 1155 socket, LGA1156 is also EOF. For LGA1155 we have Intel 2600k, a quadcore unlocked processor priced ~270. The non-K version safes you aprox. 50€.

Any timeframe on when it'll hit the european market?

A bit huge, but does it support the socket 1155? Their site says it doesn't:

Compatibility:
Intel®:
Socket 478
Socket T / LGA775
Socket LGA1366
AMD®:
Socket 754
Socket 939
Socket AM2
Socket AM2+
Socket AM3
Socket 940

The Mugen 3 does have 1155/1156 compatibility though, but can't find it in stores yet (it also has one less heatpipe, though it's unclear if any performance is lost).

What's a good thermal paste nowadays? Still got a bunch of old stuff lying around, but I don't trust it anymore (years & years old). New stuff only costs 5 euros or something, so there's no reason to skimp on that.
Anandtech lists the Intel 510 120Gb disk as probably best choice, but from figures alone, the Vertex 3 seems to have much higher (theoretical!) transfer rates.
Hence it's possible that if the SF firmware gets un****ed, it might actually be a better choice, while still being significantly cheaper than the Intel.

Didn't think so. But I'm not sure there's any reason to go for a RevoDrive 3 or something similar when the Vertex 3 is around.

That said, it might differ from mobo to mobo & from gfx setup to gfx setup. I read that the lower class Z68 designs might run into PCI-E congestion in extreme situations (Asrock gets around it by adding a discrete PCI-E controller etc).

But does it make sense to go for the Z68? I don't transcode a lot (or rather at all), I don't expect to be using Virtu's I-mode and I will use the 120Gb SSD as a drive for OS, programs & games, so Intel's SRT won't be used either. The planned other HDDs are for simple storage, so it doesn't matter if they're slower.
The on board graphics are nice to have for when the discrete card breaks. But other than that? I doubt I need it.

Ironically though, the top of the line P67 are pretty damn near identical in price to the normal Z68 boards...




Anyhow, I did a quick configuration check @ alternate.de (since stuff tends to be cheaper in Germany):

CPU Intel i7-2600K (socket 1155) = 260
CPU cooler Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B SCMG-2100 (compatibility issue?) = 35
Mobo ASUS P8P67 Deluxe R.3.0 = 205
RAM Corsair DIMM 16 GB DDR3-1600 Quad-Kit CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9, Vengeance = 160
GFX MSI N570GTX-M2D12D5 OC = 269
PSU Antec TruePower Quattro 850 = 113
Case (Tower) Fractal Design Define R3 Titanium Grey = 88
DVD-RW LiteOn iHAS624 = 26
SSD Intel® 510 Series 2,5" SSD 120 GB, SATA 600, SSDSC2MH120A2K5, MLC-Chips = 223
HDD x2 (raid 1) Hitachi HDS723020BLA642 2 TB, SATA 600, Deskstar 7K3000, 24/7 = 170
OS Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit UK (OEM)= 118
Delivery = 25
+ general expected overhead = 33

Comes to a total of 1725 euros not including: fan controller, additional fans & rubber mounts for noise cancelation
RAM, GFX & PSU taken to reflect price point rather than specific model (TBD).

If I buy local (alternate.be used for reference), I get to about 1830 euros for the same hardware (give or take a few).

This comes to slightly over the budget I had in mind, so comments & tweaks are very welcome. :)

Z68 = P67 + H67: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4330/asus-p8z68v-review/8
You can skip on the features you don't need. X68 is indeed steep.

16GB RAM, that's huge, I'm still kind of surprised to see 12gb kits around and I'm not overly conviced with its usage for home computers, even for workstations I find it a lot! But it seems there is market for such kits, and if the use can justify the price for you, well there you go :)

The psu, @ 850 watt might be slightly over the top. Okay it gives you some headroom but unless you're using CF/SLI videocards you won't even come close to 500~600W. Doesn't safe you much money, but it's something.

Regarding the coolprut, maybe you get some with your heatsink. Otherwise, coolprut hasn't really changed since 10y ago, now that the impact of an overclocked cpu means significantly less than 10y ago I really see no reason to go for special flavor cooling paste other than personal matters :)

Yeah, that's why I used the P67 in the example config. As far as I know, I don't need any of the main extra features.

As mentioned above the RAM & PSU are not fixed, but simply meant to convey a price point I'd be looking at if I wanted to max out my budget.
Still need to research the RAM for best fix (be it 12Gb with hopefully lower latency or 16Gb) and will eventually probably go with a PSU that does good cable management but is also as quiet as possible at that price point.
Any suggestions are welcome. :)

That's a bit disappointing. Everything else seemed to have evolved so much...

With some research and some back & forthing, turns out that:

• Scythe Mugen 2 isn't compatible (knew that pretty early on)
• Thermalright Silver Arrow doesn't fit
• Thermalright Archon is too tall for the case by 5mm
• The bigass Noctuas don't fit the mobo
• The Noctua NH-U12P SE2 does fit, but not with high RAM (think Vengeance or RipsawX heat spreaders)

Alternate.de @ 'european' instead of listed german price:
Asus P8P67 DELUXE <R.3.0>
Intel Core i7-2600K
Noctua NH-U12P SE2
Corsair 16GB 1600-999 XMS
MSI N570GTX-M2D12D5 OC
Fractal Design Define R3 Titan. Grey ATX
OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W
2x be quiet! Silent Wings USC 140x140x25
NesteQ MaxZero
LiteOn iHAS624
Intel 510 series 120GB
2x Hitachi 2TB HDS723020BLA642 7K3000
MS Windows 7 Professional 64bit SP1 UK OEM

Comes in at 1800 euros incl shipping to Belgium etc.


Alternate.be:
Asus P8P67 DELUXE rev 3.0
Intel Core i7-2600K
Noctua NH-U12P SE2
Kingston 16 GB DDR3-1600 Quad-Kit
MSI N570GTX-M2D12D5 OC
Fractal Design Define R3 Titan. Grey ATX
OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W
2x be quiet! Silent Wings USC 140x140x25
NesteQ MaxZero
LiteOn iHAS624
OCZ Vertex 3 120Gb
2x Hitachi 2TB HDS723020BLA642 7K3000
MS Windows 7 Professional 64bit SP1 UK OEM

Comes in at 1839 euros without shipping (might pick it up myself). Not really worth bothering with german shops in that case... A lot harder to return stuff to when it breaks.


Still, I'm not quite happy with it yet:

• I'm above budget (though I don't really care unless someone can make cost effective suggestions).
• The memory used in .be isn't quite as good, but nearly no one stocks low heatspreader 16Gb DDR3-1600 Quad-Kits in .be as far as I can tell.
• Cooling solution selection was a series of different choices that all got shot down... Eventually settled on the NH-U12P SE2 due to availability and compatibility with the other hardware, but still I'm forced to limit my choices in memory. Makes me want to explore alternatives... Like the bigass Antec H2O 920 or small Corsair H70...

Comments & suggestions, gentlemen? :battle:

Azerty.nl:
Asus P8P67 DELUXE rev 3.0
Intel Core i7-2600K
Noctua NH-U12P SE2
Kingston HyperX 16 GB DDR3-1600 Quad-Kit
MSI N570GTX-M2D12D5 OC
Fractal Design Define R3 Titan. Grey ATX
OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W
2x be quiet! Silent Wings USC 140x140x25
LiteOn iHAS624
Intel 510 series 120GB
2x Hitachi 2TB HDS723020BLA642 7K3000
MS Windows 7 Professional 64bit SP1 UK OEM

Total 1780 euros, incl delivery, but without fan controller.

Doesn't really seem worth the hassle either...

we're awaiting the benchmarks :)

wondering why you consider 16Gb in a desktop... how many VMs do you plan to run? ;)

8Gb is 'fine'.
I wanted 12Gb, but that was a mismatch with the dual channel mobo, since it's 3 sticks.
So 16Gb is the natural step. Still not too far from the budget so, why not? :woot:

VMware does come into it, of course. I experiment at home a little for things I can't do at work (often stuck with using decently sized databases, so I try to fill the gap that disk IOPS create with more RAM).

I suppose I could scale down to 8Gb (2x 4) though, maybe 1866 with the same timings as the 1600? :)



Either way, I'm less bothered by the RAM thing than by the CPU cooler thing. Had to swap too much to feel good about it (like 8 times before getting to thisone). Pretty close to saying "**** it" and just taking a Zalman...

16Gb + RAMdisk for VM images will also be interesting :)

Motivated by the fact I have to go to Aartselaar today (to the Antwerp Moto Store & Alternate is just a little further down the A12) and fueled by the recent notice that I would be getting my vacation pay soon, I splurged and made the Alternate.be order. :)

Had to pick other HDDs, DVD writer & fancontroller, because those weren't in stock. But those weren't really special anyhow. Can go pick the stuff up later this afternoon.

Don't know when I'll get around to assembling it, but I guess other non-prior plans for this weekend will be postponed. |D

multiboot into Hackintosh for some iLife action? :)

First benchmark score for 3DMark11 is P5631 (with everything running stock). But I ran it while the computer was still busy building my RAID. |D

It can only get better with some tweaking (and after the intel chipset isn't busy building the damn array, has been at it for over 5 hours now).

No fan of Macs (or their OS). I'm more a Win 7 + Debian kinda guy. ;)


As for general comments on assembly:
- The top of the case has more flex than you'd expect. Still solid, but somewhat odd.
- The OCZ PSU's cable for the ATX-8 connector (or whatever the proper name is) is SHORT! It seems they expect it to be above the motherboard. Of course this case has the PSU on the bottom... I had to run the cable past the PCI slots and run it under the gfx card to make it to the connector. As is, it's blocking most of my expansion slots (which is fine, no plans to use them). I'd rather have run the cable behind the mobo tray though, but it's just too short. If it was 0.5cm shorter, I wouldn't have been able to plug it in.
- The fan controller I picked (because the other wasn't in stock) is pretty shitty. Has temp diodes included, as well as single sided heat tape, but 3 out of 4 have already let go after less than a day of use. Should I use electrical tape instead? Are there dangers of electrical tape melting if I put it to the back of the GPU? Guess I should get something especially rated for this...

I ran into the little Asus - Intel - OCZ - SandForce blame circle. The dreaded BSODs and freezes in Win 7. Since I couldn't troubleshoot it any other way, I was forced to do it the OCZ way, which means firmware update and then wiping the entire SSD to start with a clean sleight.
Sure hope this works, but I'm calling it quits for now. And tomorrow night BBQ, so thursday night is the soonest I'll be getting around to starting the OS install all over again and hoping the firmware fixes whatever the problem was (since SF has officially still not been able to replicate the issue, yet rumours of recalls keep buzzing around).

I do regret not waiting for the Intel 510 that wasn't in stock, I'll tell you that much.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...330#post652330

For anyone interested in the SSD woes.
I'm going to ask Alternate to replace it with an Intel 510 120Gb & pay a little extra. I hope they bite.

hate to say this but, first time adopters are most of the time "beta testers"
not saying to build last generation system, but slightly less bleeding edge components might give you better reliability vs performance.

most of your components are now proven to be working, but buying the same config in january would also have proven first adopter anomalies; (chipset).

anyhow; hope that Alternate helps you out; even a last generation SSD will be plenty fast in my humble opinion

Well, **** happens. :)

They said that if my final tests fail, they would take it back, test it and if they have the same issues, they'll let me swap to Intel.

Pretty screwed if they "can't replicate it" though. I'll have to fight OCZ directly in that case.

At work I issued older Intel X-25 in the development laptops and they work great. The codemonkeys are happy with 'em.
But I feel bad if I don't go for the 'best' within my price range. That has risks of course.

Removed daisy chained power. Only things plugged in now are motherboard (24 + 8), PCI-E 6pin x2, DVD-RW on a separate powerline, Vertex on a separate powerline, fan controller on molex on a separate powerline. Other drives not plugged in.

Mobo BIOS updated to 1703 (beta).
Secure Erased Vertex 3 which is already at latest FW 2.09.
EPU, TPU, etc are disabled. No overclock whatsoever on any component.
Bluetooth, JMicron & Marvell chips disabled in BIOS.

AHCI enabled, but hotplug disabled.
Outcome: BSOD before chosing a user & computer name during the install.

AHCI enabled, but hotplug enabled.
Retry outcome: Cautiously optimistic. Win 7 install ok, drivers are now installed, stable enough to run 3DMark11 (and scored higher than last time: P5889 with everything @ stock) and be up an running for 30 minutes... Cross your fingers.



Of course, this won't help me much as such, since I still need to connect the HDDs, put them in Raid mode, etc... But there might be hope yet... To be continued.

a bit too much variables to be comfortable with in my humble opinion

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's the mobo or the SSD.

I've done 7 reinstalls now, following OCZ's support forum's procedures with each time a slightly different procedure as suggested. Doesn't change a thing.

I'm going to drop it off at Alternate on tuesday, let them figure it out. They have spare parts so should be straight forward for them.

If anyone is keeping score: Firmware 2.11 seems to be solving a lot of people's problems for Vertex 3 drives.

So finally Deus Ex HR comes out, and I'm playing it on my new rig. Sadly the thing crashes... First infrequently now frequently.

The 570 GTX's GPU is constantly at 100% and reading out at 64% fan speed & 85°c. Is the GPU barfing or is the SSD back to cause issues? *sigh* More debugging ahead of me...

Really not having much luck with this new PC. I shall name it Agrajag...

could be a software bug

Nah, I found some posts about how a bunch of MSI cards went out with wrong BIOS settings. Supposedly the "OC" cards went out with too low voltage settings etc. Couldn't run the "OC" settings.

To test I downclocked to standard 570 GTX speeds and it's been running solid for a day now. And with 'sane' GPU load levels etc (eventhough it now has less 'computing power').

Will need to flash the GTX's BIOS to see if that makes it run normally again.

Updated to next BIOS. Let's see if this thing works. :)

ATM I'm getting 6192 points in 3DMARK11 with everything stock and several programs open in the background.