It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...

 
Go Back [M] > Madshrimps > Articles & Howto's
AMD ingnots, sliced "TBread" with the crusts cut off AMD ingnots, sliced "TBread" with the crusts cut off
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


AMD ingnots, sliced "TBread" with the crusts cut off
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 23rd May 2003, 19:24   #1
Liquid3D
 
Posts: n/a
Default AMD ingnots, sliced "TBread" with the crusts cut off



Quote:
Recently AMD enthusiasts (overclockers) have had a smile across their faces the length of which must have wifes and girlfriends wondering. Their new-found mistress; "lower-speed" Thoroughbred-B's, and their "double overclock" potential. Almost mythical in overclocking circles (prior to phase-change cooling) doubling a processor's default speed is the apotheosis for the enthusiast. So where did these sweethearts come from? And why have I chose the title "AMD ingots sliced "TBread" with the crusts cut off"? Buckle up, it's going to a bumpy ride!
http://www.madshrimps.be/gotoartik.php?articID=84


I want to thank everyone whom contributed by printing their full sticker code, and especially thank Austin @ LowYat.net. Without such experts (enthusiasts) willing to take risks sharing their hypotheses, this would be a boring hobby.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2003, 19:36   #2
TeuS
 
Posts: n/a
Default

very interesting, great article!
explains a lot how that strange AMD rating works

mod: can you explain why the colors of the cpu differ? I've had a brown and a green 1700+ AIUGA through my hands, so why do the batches have different colors?
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2003, 20:30   #3
[M] Reviewer/HWBot *****
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,344
RichBa5tard Freshly Registered
Default

Quote:
In this question lies the answer to the mystery. Yes, I beleive do believe AMD "binned" the cores from those area's of the Wafer. Due to a possible lense misalignment, or some anomaly during the multiple Photolithographic/etching cycles, the outer wafer cores were rendered unusable.
Don't shoot me for making a wild guess, but perhaps AMD doesn't "cut the crust" because of technical but economical issues. Imagine if they would try to produce CPU's from those outer crust "K" and "R" sections, and only 50% would pass the tests. Would the other 50% (which is being sold for what, 30$ a piece per 1000?) justify all the manufacturing costs involved? The "good quality" center wafre JxxxB's are already being sold for way to little money, perhaps it's just cheaper for AMD to throw those "crusts" away or recycle them.

Very interesting read, especially the first paragraph. Now I know a little bit more about microprocessor fabrication.

By the way, thanks for adjusting the blue into gray.
__________________
HTPC (mac osx): Mac Mini | Core Duo 1.6Ghz | 2GB DDR2 | 26\" TFT
Development (mac osx): Macbook | Core 2 2.0Ghz | 4GB DDR2 | 250GB HD
Games (win xp): E2160 @ 2.4Ghz | HD3850 OC | Asrock 4coredual-vsta | 2GB DDR2
RichBa5tard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd May 2003, 21:22   #4
Liquid3D
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you guy's. And "shoot you" heck no, I'll thank you! Part of the reason "I put myself out there" is to learn from my mistakes. that's not to say, I start with unvalidated premises, but at some point the definition of a hypothesis (an educated guess) will be tested.

I didn't consider the economics from that perspective. In fact that's where I kinda rushed things. I couldn't find the article I read on lithography where it discussess the voltage testing, and how every piece cannot be tested due to cost. But that article would have corrborated your theory. I wonder then, at what point AMD made the decision to "bin" the remaining wafers, or crust. (God I hope I haven't coined a phrase, and it's "crust").
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2003, 01:53   #5
Madshrimp
 
jmke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: 7090/Belgium
Posts: 78,737
jmke has disabled reputation
Default

great work Liquid3D, thanks for sharing this info with the community !
__________________
jmke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2003, 03:32   #6
[M] Reviewer/HWBot *****
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,344
RichBa5tard Freshly Registered
Default

Liquid3D, how did you come to the conclusion the "K" and "R" chips are made from cores close to the end of the wafer, and not just a low quality wafer?

Is it a logical deduction, or is it a fact?
__________________
HTPC (mac osx): Mac Mini | Core Duo 1.6Ghz | 2GB DDR2 | 26\" TFT
Development (mac osx): Macbook | Core 2 2.0Ghz | 4GB DDR2 | 250GB HD
Games (win xp): E2160 @ 2.4Ghz | HD3850 OC | Asrock 4coredual-vsta | 2GB DDR2
RichBa5tard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2003, 04:27   #7
Madshrimp
 
jmke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: 7090/Belgium
Posts: 78,737
jmke has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Chris Tom @ www.amdzone.com :

.13 micron equals 130 nanometers. I'm not certain what 157nm comes from.
__________________
jmke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2003, 18:42   #8
Liquid3D
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Richba5tard I came to the conclusion based upon Austin's guide over at http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=612 the reason I give his guide so much credit, were his theory (at least in part) was (I beleive) based upon an inside source at AMD's Singapore Fab. How much, and which information is attributed to that "contact" I've no knowledge, except to say the "laser marker ID" was definately attributed to the "contact".
And from Xbit; http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...322034857.html
where they claim the following on their site, which they layout in a "5 Step" process;
"The first five letters in the line deal with process information (JIUHB in our case). The first letter among five presumably informs us about the location of the core on the wafer. Closer the core was to the centre of the wafer; better overclocking potential is, as the core seems to have more potential for higher speeds. Lower letter is better, as it means that the die was closer to the centre. In general, "A" is better than "J", while K is typically worse than "J", but still has more potential than "R", which is the worst"

Out of curiosity, would you consider this plagerism? I like XBitlabs don't get me wrong, but basing this "5 Step" process to TBred ID, there's whole paragraghs cut, and pasted from Austin's Guide. That was the reason I gave so much credit to Austin at lowyat.net, without whom I'd have little to extrapolate from. My hypothesis was based on the "K -R" steppings being absent, HIS (Austin's) theory was based upon the steppings themselves.

Also jmke I followed that quote you placed in there but cannot find where this question is posited? Funny you should post that quote, because I'm almost finished with my next article which focuses on Intel the industry, and the 157nm Lithography process. That particular figure 157nm, is a measurement of the upcoming ultraviolet-light wave-length, which will image (or etch) lines in the .09 micron (90nm), .06 micron (64nm) through .04 micron (45nm) core die-shrinks. Currently DUV, Deep Unltraviolet Lithography (possibly augmented lense 248nm wave-length unltraviolet light) is used to image the .13 micron (130nm) process.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2003, 19:30   #9
[M] Reviewer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,543
DUR0N Freshly Registered
Default






mebby it helps
DUR0N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2003, 19:39   #10
Madshrimp
 
jmke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: 7090/Belgium
Posts: 78,737
jmke has disabled reputation
Default

"That particular figure 157nm, is a measurement of the upcoming ultraviolet-light wave-length, which will image (or etch) lines in the .09 micron (90nm), .06 micron (64nm) through .04 micron (45nm) core die-shrinks. Currently DUV, Deep Unltraviolet Lithography (possibly augmented lense 248nm wave-length unltraviolet light) is used to image the .13 micron (130nm) process.
"

was the answer I was looking for :
__________________
jmke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AMD Launches 45nm Triple Core Phenom II with DDR3 support jmke WebNews 0 9th February 2009 09:26
AMD Announces Widespread Availability and Broad Global OEM Support for New Quad-Core jmke WebNews 0 13th November 2008 16:17
AMD GAME! Enables Console-like Simplicity for Mainstream PCs jmke WebNews 9 19th May 2008 20:51
AMD Introduces ‘AMD Business Class’, Designed With Business in Mind jmke WebNews 0 28th April 2008 09:33
AMD Launches World’s First x86 Triple-Core Processors jmke WebNews 0 27th March 2008 15:16
AMD To Cut HD 3650 & 3850 Prices In Early March jmke WebNews 2 29th February 2008 02:03
AMD to cut FX-70 prices jmke WebNews 0 6th December 2006 15:09
AMD Introduces Three New Dual-Core AMD Opteron™ Processors jmke WebNews 0 12th March 2006 19:25
AMD Introduces Line of Low-Power, High-Performance AMD Geode Embedded x86 Processors Sidney WebNews 0 24th May 2004 06:10
Amd Reports Fourth Quarter And Annual Results jmke WebNews 0 30th January 2004 14:47

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:05.


Powered by vBulletin® - Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO