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But I have to say, I may have had the most fun yet, here at madshrimps. Now I understand why so many Xtremesys members are also Liquidninja, and Madshrimp members as well. There's a great group of people here. Halaluah I found some more comments I wanted to share with RobT (wafer theif (kidding)), not to defer (as I've said ealier) responsibility owning my theories, but some of the basis for my premises. I was thinking back at which point I swayed on my conviction manufacturers fabricate at a certain process (i.e..13 micron) and the wafer yeild is consistant across the entire model line in so far as speed. All capable of reaching the same top end performance. Then are assigned PR models by multiplier adjustment, voltage, etc... As RobT pointed out, photolithographic consistancy across the entire wafer implies there should be no variation. However there are many theories in direct contradiction to this. Ed Stroglio makes the following assertions; How to tell then apart.; "There are high-end and low-end TBredBs. They aren't all the same. The high-end ones on average perform several hundred MHz better than the low-end ones. Update 3/28/03: The gap between the two has narrowed somewhat with the latest (week 8 and thereafter) "J" chips. You can identify which type of TBredB it is by looking at code that begins the second line of coding on the processor. If you see a code like "AIUHB" that begins with the letter "A," that's a high-end TBredB. If you see a code like "JIUCB" that begins with the letter "J," that's a low-end TBredB" Alhtough this doesn't specifically attribute the differences to location of the cores on the wafer, perhaps RobT can understand where my stupidities derive from. Between articles like this from authorities in the field such as the editor of Overclockers.com, and many other sources, maybe RobT can see where I might become misdirected, and possibly forgive my (as well as Ed Stroglio's by definition)"stupidities." :grin: |
Your attempt to uncover the mysteries of the coding is indeed well intentioned - however there would have been a few queries I would have made before others had rather rudely rebuffed your hypothesis. Namely if A is better than J etc - meaning a high end chip why did all durons start with the letter A on their 5 digit coding. Also with regards to the 8th and 9th numbers - this one is also clear cut as Bartons have existed with numbers lower than their rating and when the XP2200 Tbred A first came out (and was the highest rated cpu for AMD at the time) the cpu evaluated at Toms Hardware had the numbers 25 in these two positions. |
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thx for that info, Rob should check that by the way, feel free to register! |
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SGtroyer @ Anandtech: Quote:
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and PM@Anandtech also shared some very good info! this is in reply to Sgtroyer I agree with everything Steve wrote above me. I'll try to add additional comments around what he wrote so eloquently. Quote:
Still, Steve's right. Variation is smallest between parts on the same wafer, no matter where they are on the stepped image. Then there is a larger statistical variation between wafers in the same lot. And the largest between different lots. Quote:
So I hand-drew one and put it on my website. It's extremely rudimentary, but it will work for purposes of illustration. It's here I've always thought this length/width thing is backwards... but not as backwards as the whole "source/drain" "current direction" thing. Quote:
157nm is the wavelength of the light that comes out of the laser. The shorter the wavelength, the smaller things that you can lithography draw with the light. If you try to draw a transistor that is smaller than the wavelength of the light used to draw it through the mask, the image of the transistor will be blurry. So if you are drawing a 0.13um square using a 193nm laser, it will end up looking like a circle. Through the use of various tricks such as OPC, and to a lesser extent phase shifting, you can still get the shape that you want without upgrading the laser to a smaller (and more expensive) wavelength... up to a point anyway. Link to OPC company webpage and to another one on Synopsys's page with a more graphic example. As far as voltage, signalling and die shrinks, I wouldn't have termed it the way that you did, but what you said is fundamentally correct. It's worth noting that reducing voltage is something is forced on the industry due to reliability concerns. The circuitry doesn't "require" less voltage. It's more like if you give the circuit a higher voltage, it will break either immediately, or in time. Voltage reductions reduce the operating power of the part, and improve the reliability. But it is much harder to design robust circuitry for lower voltages even with the improvements in process technology. |
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