Where art meets science - Page 2

FreeStyler · 4th November 2005, 22:36

no that would still be water vapour.

Maybe at plasma temperatures (WAY above 100°C, more like WAY above 1000°C) the atoms will probably seperate, and probably get into a super ionized state. But that's not going to happen under normal earth conditions.
Electrolisis (or whatever the correct english term for it might be) will cause the molecule to split. But that can happen even at room temp (it can't be solid that's all)

That is, if I recall chemistry lessons correctly.

Sidney · 4th November 2005, 23:24

No Sir,
Try this - put a bucket of water and set it at 101°c, the bucket of water turns into steam where the very small molecules will be attract to high oxygen in the air becoming oxygen and hydrogen gases. Water no more

the 0 becomes 02 (in gas form) and H2 becomes gas with the single oxygen molecule.

Separation of many molecules do not require extreme high temp.

Oxidation or rust on metal requires only room temp

You don't need 1000°C to separate water; hence boiling point.

FreeStyler · 5th November 2005, 00:09

The boiling of water is a mere physical reaction, the molecues are agitated enough to loose all cohesion and thus creating vapour. The molecules themselves still remain intact however, and they don't just split into their atoms.
Thank god for that, cause a H2-O2 mixture is quite the recipy for disaster. One of the more explosive mixtures on this planet. Especially since the boiling would have put it above 100°C.

Basic chemistry:
2 H² + O² --> 2 H²O
This is a reaction in which a lot of energy is created. Thus it moves completely to the H²O stage. The only way you can move back is to add enough energy (and not just boiling it) for it to fall apart. this is how they create hydrogen for use in fuel cells or internal combustion engines. (hydrogen gas doesn't naturally occur in the lower regions of the atmosphere)

Yes there are cases where water molecules can be split up. But this is part of a larger chemical reaction, like oxidation. The energy required to slpit the water would be compensated by the rest of the reaction.

Anyway to explain this all you'll need several hours of lessons in which they explain entropy, reduction-oxidation, acid-base reactions... (
Been there, done that. And allthough I'll need my books for the details, I definitly know that just boiling water does not break down a water molecule into it's atomic blocks.

Sidney · 5th November 2005, 00:27

http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dol...m/elem001.html

I did not finish my degree in Chemistry because I failed in my second year ..... busy motorcycling around

I did finish my degree in Business / Accounting on time

I love to learn how ever long it takes.

FreeStyler · 5th November 2005, 10:03

ah the memories...

5th November 2005, 11:39

Quote:

Originally posted by lazyman
No Sir,
Try this - put a bucket of water and set it at 101°c, the bucket of water turns into steam where the very small molecules will be attract to high oxygen in the air becoming oxygen and hydrogen gases. Water no more the 0 becomes 02 (in gas form) and H2 becomes gas with the single oxygen molecule.

Separation of many molecules do not require extreme high temp.

Oxidation or rust on metal requires only room temp

You don't need 1000°C to separate water; hence boiling point.

AHAHAHAHAH.

BlackRabbit · 5th November 2005, 15:06

And to confuse a little bit more: it IS possible to seperate water molecules at room temp

5th November 2005, 20:10

Quote:

Originally posted by BlackRabbit
And to confuse a little bit more: it IS possible to seperate water molecules at room temp

You mean, separating the water molecules from each other (good luck, you'll be busy for a while), or separating each molecule into it's atoms?

BlackRabbit · 6th November 2005, 00:43

The molecules themselves.

FreeStyler · 6th November 2005, 11:51

yea but not at room pressure.

4th November 2005, 22:36	#11
FreeStyler Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Antwerp Posts: 1,186	no that would still be water vapour. Maybe at plasma temperatures (WAY above 100°C, more like WAY above 1000°C) the atoms will probably seperate, and probably get into a super ionized state. But that's not going to happen under normal earth conditions. Electrolisis (or whatever the correct english term for it might be) will cause the molecule to split. But that can happen even at room temp (it can't be solid that's all) That is, if I recall chemistry lessons correctly. __________________ Put brain in gear BEFORE engaging mouth.

4th November 2005, 23:24	#12
Sidney [M] Reviewer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 15,739	No Sir, Try this - put a bucket of water and set it at 101°c, the bucket of water turns into steam where the very small molecules will be attract to high oxygen in the air becoming oxygen and hydrogen gases. Water no more the 0 becomes 02 (in gas form) and H2 becomes gas with the single oxygen molecule. Separation of many molecules do not require extreme high temp. Oxidation or rust on metal requires only room temp You don't need 1000°C to separate water; hence boiling point. __________________ lazyman Opteron 165 (2) @2.85 1.42 vcore AMD Stock HSF + Chill Vent II

5th November 2005, 00:09	#13
FreeStyler Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Antwerp Posts: 1,186	The boiling of water is a mere physical reaction, the molecues are agitated enough to loose all cohesion and thus creating vapour. The molecules themselves still remain intact however, and they don't just split into their atoms. Thank god for that, cause a H2-O2 mixture is quite the recipy for disaster. One of the more explosive mixtures on this planet. Especially since the boiling would have put it above 100°C. Basic chemistry: 2 H² + O² --> 2 H²O This is a reaction in which a lot of energy is created. Thus it moves completely to the H²O stage. The only way you can move back is to add enough energy (and not just boiling it) for it to fall apart. this is how they create hydrogen for use in fuel cells or internal combustion engines. (hydrogen gas doesn't naturally occur in the lower regions of the atmosphere) Yes there are cases where water molecules can be split up. But this is part of a larger chemical reaction, like oxidation. The energy required to slpit the water would be compensated by the rest of the reaction. Anyway to explain this all you'll need several hours of lessons in which they explain entropy, reduction-oxidation, acid-base reactions... ( Been there, done that. And allthough I'll need my books for the details, I definitly know that just boiling water does not break down a water molecule into it's atomic blocks. __________________ Put brain in gear BEFORE engaging mouth.

5th November 2005, 00:27	#14
Sidney [M] Reviewer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 15,739	http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dol...m/elem001.html I did not finish my degree in Chemistry because I failed in my second year ..... busy motorcycling around I did finish my degree in Business / Accounting on time I love to learn how ever long it takes. __________________ lazyman Opteron 165 (2) @2.85 1.42 vcore AMD Stock HSF + Chill Vent II

5th November 2005, 10:03	#15
FreeStyler Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Antwerp Posts: 1,186	ah the memories... __________________ Put brain in gear BEFORE engaging mouth.

5th November 2005, 15:06	#17
BlackRabbit [M] Reviewer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,202	And to confuse a little bit more: it IS possible to seperate water molecules at room temp __________________ >> imagehosting.jumbee.net -> Free Image Hosting >> favorites.jumbee.net -> Bookmark Manager >> www.datanuke.be -> Lanparty Network Rental, community & reviews

6th November 2005, 00:43	#19
BlackRabbit [M] Reviewer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,202	The molecules themselves. __________________ >> imagehosting.jumbee.net -> Free Image Hosting >> favorites.jumbee.net -> Bookmark Manager >> www.datanuke.be -> Lanparty Network Rental, community & reviews

6th November 2005, 11:51	#20
FreeStyler Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Antwerp Posts: 1,186	yea but not at room pressure. __________________ Put brain in gear BEFORE engaging mouth.

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