P4 hyperthreading & mem timings vragen
 

Ik heb sinds gisteren een nieuwe setup in elkaar gestoken. Mijn laatste aanraking met nieuwe hardware was met een Athlon 1400, waar ik in der tijd heel wat info heb opgezocht rond oc'n, ...
Al die info is in het DDR tijdperk vrij onbruikbaar en ik zit hier dus als een onwetende achter een -mogelijk- goed oc-bare pc.

Ik zit dus met enkele vragen en ik hoop dat jullie me met een antwoord kunnen bedienen.

Info:

P4 2800c / asus p4p800 deluxe / 2x256 corsair pc3200 xms cl2 / levicom 450watt voeding / stockcooling in chieftec case

vraag 1 - hyperthreading
Ik werk al jaren met win2k, maar het is mij ter ore gekomen dat winxp native ondersteuning heeft voor hyperthreading, terwijl win2k de HT'd cpu ziet als een dual cpu setup. Ook heb ik ergens gelezen dat SP1 voor xp een performance decrease zou geven op een HT'd cpu.
Welk os gaat mij de beste prestaties opleveren? en met welke service pack?

vraag2 - memory timings.
Ik ben een totale leek in memory timings, maar die corsair zou zeker heel "strak" (wat dat ook moet wezen) moeten kunnen draaien.
Help me out here. Stel ik zou een oc willen doen naar 3 gig of 3.2 gig, wat moet ik allemaal doen.
rekening houdend met mijn mobo, denk ik dat Gamer mij het best van een antwoord kan voorzien ;)

alvast bedankt, en ja ik weet dat de 2de vraag wel eens een heel lang antwoord kan beslaan, maar ik geraak niet echt wijs uit de sticky thread over mem timings.

best winxp installeren, daarmee is een P4 HT zeker het snelste.

timings & FSB: kijken aan welke timings en op welke FSB je de beste prestaties haalt hé (sisoft sandra)

1) where did you read performance decrease in HT with SP1? It is true that XP supports HT better then 2000, but this also count for the average dual-cpu system. XP has better support.

2) on springdale and canterwoord motherboards the timings don't matter "as much" as with nForce2 (AMD) systems. You will have better results from lowering the timings and increasing the FSB. ALso try to work at FSB:MEM ratio of 1:1 for optimal performance. With a multiplier of 14x on that P4 you should be able to reach between 220~230FSB, giving you 3+ghz in the result.

3) not only Gamer has experience with the canterwood motherboards, and if you posted in English I'm sure some other well experienced none-dutch speaking people would be able to provide you with on-topic answers

:*

well here we go :

Since yesterday i've been running a new setup. My last experiences with "new hardware" were with an Athlon 1400. In those days i've spend a lot of time searching for info regarding oc'ing ...
In the new DDR-era this info is quite useless, and now i'm sitting here with no knowledge and a potentially great system waiting to be oc'd.

so ... i've got a few questions and i hope that you could provide me with some answers.

Info:

P4 2800c / asus p4p800 deluxe / 2x256 corsair pc3200 xms cl2 / levicom 450watt PSU / stockcooling in chieftec case

question 1 - hyperthreading
i've been working with win2k for years, but i've heard that winxp has native HT support, where win2k sees a ht'd cpu as a dual cpu setup. I've also read somewhere that SP1 for winxp would involve a performance decrease on HT'd cpu's.
which OS will yield me the best results? and with which service pack?

question 2 - memory timings.
I'm a total noob regarding memory timings, but this corsair should provide me with some very "tight" (whatever that means) results.
Help me out here. What if I would want to OC to let's say 3 gig or 3.2gig, what should i do?

I don't know jack **** about timings, i've no idea what every settings or these 2-2-6 numbers mean. so keep it in plain english (or dutch) please.

A great link with some info regarding mem timings would be great.

1:1 / async / cas .. i have only a slight idea what all these things mean, so keep that in mind.

you WILL use windows XP and sp1, don't ask why, just do it.

for the non overclocker :
1:1 is for your setup what you need, memory will be running at 200 mhz as will the bus, if you don't plan to overclock
1:1 means sync (undivided), dividers 5:4 or 3:2 mean that your ram will be running slower then your cpu, you DO not need this when you don't overclock, at this default speed, you should set your timings to cas 2 2-6-2
HOWEVER, on an 865pe chipset, timings don't mean too much... so the difference with relaxed timings will be low, maybe 1 or 2%
the next post will go towards overclocking...

overclocking on a 865/875pe is nuggets :)

what you need to do is keep your voltages standard and whack up your fsb with 5 points everytime (that's 70 mhz on your cpu), anbd run 5 minutes of prime...
of course you will quickly crash out :)
Why?
because your ram won't be able to follow over 220 fsb...
what can you do?

well, do it as I will explain now...
enable hyperthreading, set ai overclock to manual, lock your agp and pci bus to 66 and 33, setup performance mode to turbo, (go to jumperfree config) configure your ram yourself you set your timings to cas 2.5, 3-6-3 directly, don't bother keeping them tight, you can look into that later, and you boot your cpu at a fsb of 205 with these settings and synchronous ram (= dram frequency 400), then go into windows at 205 fsb (about 2870 mhz) and run prime, do this again at 210, if this works (2940) do this again at 215...
when it stops working, and prime crashes, you have gone over what your ram can do at these relaxed timings.
is it over?
heck no!!!
you go intop bios and set memory divider to 5:4 (dram : 320) and you continu, this means you will be able to further overclock your cpu while your ram will be running slower.
On an amd systeml this would mean the system would be slower, on an 865 pe it won't, you just go ahead and set that fsb to 220 or 230 and go on overclocking..., when you would be able to reach 250 (you won't), your ram would then run 200 which it is meant to do.
normally the cpu will crap out on you at about 240 fsb... when it does, you go back 1 mhz fsb at once till the system is primestable... then you can try to get your ramtimings up.

damn this is a difficult explanation...
when you want to do it faster, just enable hyperthreading, set ai overclock to manual, lock your agp and pci bus to 66 and 33, setup performance mode to turbo, (go to jumperfree config) configure your ram yourself you set your timings to cas 2 2-6-2 directly, set the ram divider to 5:4 (dram setting 320) and then set your fsb directly to 220, that's 3080 mhz, your ram will be running 180 or so, but that won't be too much of a problem performancewise, and prime the crap, if it is stabvle for ten minutes, set it to 225 and try again, and so on, over 225, go 2 mhz at a time, 227, 229, 231

Thanks Calantak for these great replies !

I've just installed WinXP + SP1 instead of Win2k SP4
I took a look at my temps with asus pc probe

guess what? that dual cpu thingy with win2k seems to dis-idle your cpu a lot.

win2k sp4 idle : 48°
win2k sp4 prime load : ?
winxp sp1 idle : 42° (39° with just a single casefan)
winxp sp1 prime load : 55°

I'll do some oc'ing now (try to hit 3gig stable) and when i've installed all my casefans i'll try and push it further.

@ stigmata : I'm online now, if you have specific problems, post them directly :)

don't look at the temps!
look at prime95 stability for 5 minutes (for starters)!!

i have had a 3.6 ghz cpu for months now, running at 60 degrees, no probs whatsoever (with the whitewater dtek blck, that'll go down for sure :D )


use the n° 7-post to do it, dram at 320 timings at cas 2 , 2-6-2 right away, and go for fsb oc starting with 220, it'll go right away, and prime it for 5-10 minutes :=)

wait for those casefans, because 55°C is already pretty high :)
I'm writing an article concerning memory timings and the Canterwoord chipsets.. interesting results I'm having so far
, expect it online one of these days!

running 228fsb with mem at 320 giving me 3.2 ghz
timings:
DRAM CAS# latency : 2
DRAM RAS# precharge : 2
DRAM RAS# to CAS# delay : 2
DRAM precharge delay : 6
DRAM burst length : 4


prime stable for 10 minutes.
Load temps are 63°
After i stop prime it drops back to 44° in like 5 minutes
(looked back before submitting this post : 42°)

I'm using the "mixed mode" torture test, this is allright i guess.

Plz take a look at those mem timings and tell me they are correct.

everything is perfect!!timings are ok, your ram is running securely there , well below its designed spec, you could try to make it run at 1:1 but it probably won't work and crash out on you...
you now have a 3.2 ghz that is faster then a 3.2 ghz standard because of the high bus, the low membus don't matter all that much anywayz :)
run a prime95 torture all night, if it stixx all night, then go 1 mhz up and run again, till it crashes out on you.

and now get casefans in there, and get another cpucooler :)

remember : a 3.2 ghz costs 700 euro's or sth :D

Question remains, how much below spec is my ram running?

Is CPU mhz more important than RAM speeds?

the ram is running at 185 mhz now...
on a i865/turbo setting pure mhz speed is more important then ram speed...

you have to see what is the highest stable speed with the 320 divider you're using, check that first...
when you find the highest stable speed, rune a 3dmark run at that setting and note the result

THEN you can clock down and search for the highest stable overclock with a 1:1 setting (400 in dram configure), when you find that one (you'll have to lower your ram settings to cas 2.5 3-6-3 to check that) if you've found the highest stable overclock with ramspeed 1:1, then you 3dmark that one run, and just compare :)
i personally would opt for the highest cpuoverclock but that's just me :grin:

FAQ YOU! BIG TIME!
just check the title of this link :o
http://www.madshrimps.be/gotofaqlink.php?linkid=1841

and another one:
http://www.madshrimps.be/gotofaqlink.php?linkid=2364



RAM basics : http://www.madshrimps.be/gotofaqlink.php?linkid=2374

Finally got my casefans, and started pushing the limits.

Prime stable for at least half an hour (could go 3mhz on fsb higher before i got errors in the first 10 minutes). max temp 58°c

3402 mhz (243FSBx14)

screen :

nice!
now you just need to run it an entire night folding@ home with prime95 combined. (that's 100% load for a hyperthreading cpu)
if it doesn't crash, it'll be stable 4 ever :)

nice result, that 3400 mhz powerbeast will last you quite some time!

Vidcard = GF4 Ti4600 ?
nice OC!

still on stock voltage I presume?

Nope, Geforce4ti4200 with 64mb (abit siluro)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7060735

all stock voltages.

Will run prime test tonite.
Is it dangerous if my cpu locks up and stays locked up for a few hours?

Never had any problems with a locked up system. Just turn of the power and reboot, lower the CPU speed or up the vcore and retry, but at 58°C I wouldn't play with that vcore :)

+the P4 has a build in temp sensor which will slow down the CPU when it gets overheated (+70-80%) to avoid damage to the CPU.

nice OC.. my P4 2.4C reaches 3.2Ghz at default voltage :)

Ran prime + folding for i guess 20 minutes and my pc rebooted, so i shut it down for the night, cause i needed the rest.

Will try later this evening with lower settings, going back to 3.3 ghz

should have gone with a P4 2.4C
better bang for the buck when overclocking :-)

Question. I have +/- the same system as Stig, only I have 2x 512Mb Twinmos PC3200. Systems runs idle @ 31° with an SLK900. Can I do same thing for Oc'ing my system? With that I mean ramtimings. Because from what I have read those Corsair sticks can handle much better timings than my Twinmos sticks. ( but hey, they cost double ;))

Another thing, when I set my mobo to Turbo mode, I can't boot the system. Just have to try couple of times and then POST says "overclock failed, press F1 to enter setup" or something like that. What could this be? Memory problem?

Thx!!

Ps I have latest bios and all latest drivers, hyperpath and hyperthreading are enabled. Os : Winxp pro

that is because your ram can't handle the turbosettings

try to set the timings yourself ( by spd )

greetz

Hey.
Well, I've got a question relative to those in this topic, so i thought: why wouldn't I post it here.
I've got Corsair TwinX 512-4000, P4C800-E Deluxe and PIV 3.0Ghz.
Now I went overclocking that beast, to make it even beastier, but I got stuck at 3.54Ghz.
My mem divider is 1:1, but due to the pc4000 memory (weird is that cpu-Z only recognizes it as pc3700, guess its a bug in cpu-Z)
I guess it won't be the memory that blocks it.
I'm gonna try locking up that AGP/PCI frequencies now, but has anyone got any more hints for me how to get further?
Timigs are set by spd (3-4-4), because I thought timings weren't important on i875, so I trusted on the frequency for 100%
Oh , and before I forget: what do de following terms mean in my BIOS:
Performance mode: Turbo.
ICH Delayed transaction.

Lots of thanks in advance,

Bored

PS: if you think this doesn't belong in this topic, pm me or so, and I will delete it and create a new thread

When you overclock your rig for the first time, be sure to overclock one component at a time. You can't be sure whether it's the ram, the cpu or one of the agp/pci components holding you back.

Lock agp/pci and set mem to 4/5. Let us know how high you can get it. :)

My 2.6C aircooled at 1.55v. :)

best friend two posts above, you're stuck at 3540 because the cpu has enough, that's the mean overclock on a 3.0.

damn, thats a pity.
Thought I would be able to get higher, because on an allmost the same system from a friend of mine, i pushed that 3.0Ghz to 3.69Ghz.
His system: P4C800 deluxe, PIV3.0Ghz, corsair twinx 1024-3200
I didn't know about the fact that synchronous memory was faster than strict timings, so it runs at the "auto" frequency, but at the strictest timings.

But I'm still wondering what that turbo mode and delayed transaction is..
If anyone would be able to get me out of this,...


Anyway, thanks for all you guys' help.

Bored

Performance mode : PAT, enabled by default on Canterwood/I875 mobo's. Increasing memory transfer speed by applying stricter timings.

ICH Delayed transaction has something to do with the southbridge & Raid I think.. not sure , use the power of google :)

@ richbastard, what memory did u use to get that result?

got your p4p800 and 2.6 here but without ram, the attached picture says 265.5fsb on a 4/5 divider i presume so 212mhz, something almost every pc3200 should be able to make or am i completely wrong?

"2*512 PC3200"
I'm guessing twinmoss

Apacer actually. Good stuff, 1GB ram doing 224mhz at 2.5vdimm prime stable is not too shabby. :)

hmmz so no need to buy expensive corsair ram?

apacer and twinmoss should work fine

Just stay clear of twinmoss 50D. They frequently don't reach rated speed.