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-   -   P4 hyperthreading & mem timings vragen (http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f14/p4-hyperthreading-mem-timings-vragen-3113/)

Stigmata 27th September 2003 12:23

P4 hyperthreading & mem timings vragen
 
Ik heb sinds gisteren een nieuwe setup in elkaar gestoken. Mijn laatste aanraking met nieuwe hardware was met een Athlon 1400, waar ik in der tijd heel wat info heb opgezocht rond oc'n, ...
Al die info is in het DDR tijdperk vrij onbruikbaar en ik zit hier dus als een onwetende achter een -mogelijk- goed oc-bare pc.

Ik zit dus met enkele vragen en ik hoop dat jullie me met een antwoord kunnen bedienen.

Info:

P4 2800c / asus p4p800 deluxe / 2x256 corsair pc3200 xms cl2 / levicom 450watt voeding / stockcooling in chieftec case

vraag 1 - hyperthreading
Ik werk al jaren met win2k, maar het is mij ter ore gekomen dat winxp native ondersteuning heeft voor hyperthreading, terwijl win2k de HT'd cpu ziet als een dual cpu setup. Ook heb ik ergens gelezen dat SP1 voor xp een performance decrease zou geven op een HT'd cpu.
Welk os gaat mij de beste prestaties opleveren? en met welke service pack?

vraag2 - memory timings.
Ik ben een totale leek in memory timings, maar die corsair zou zeker heel "strak" (wat dat ook moet wezen) moeten kunnen draaien.
Help me out here. Stel ik zou een oc willen doen naar 3 gig of 3.2 gig, wat moet ik allemaal doen.
rekening houdend met mijn mobo, denk ik dat Gamer mij het best van een antwoord kan voorzien ;)

alvast bedankt, en ja ik weet dat de 2de vraag wel eens een heel lang antwoord kan beslaan, maar ik geraak niet echt wijs uit de sticky thread over mem timings.

TeuS 27th September 2003 12:25

best winxp installeren, daarmee is een P4 HT zeker het snelste.

timings & FSB: kijken aan welke timings en op welke FSB je de beste prestaties haalt h (sisoft sandra)

jmke 27th September 2003 12:29

1) where did you read performance decrease in HT with SP1? It is true that XP supports HT better then 2000, but this also count for the average dual-cpu system. XP has better support.

2) on springdale and canterwoord motherboards the timings don't matter "as much" as with nForce2 (AMD) systems. You will have better results from lowering the timings and increasing the FSB. ALso try to work at FSB:MEM ratio of 1:1 for optimal performance. With a multiplier of 14x on that P4 you should be able to reach between 220~230FSB, giving you 3+ghz in the result.

3) not only Gamer has experience with the canterwood motherboards, and if you posted in English I'm sure some other well experienced none-dutch speaking people would be able to provide you with on-topic answers

:*

Stigmata 27th September 2003 12:50

well here we go :

Since yesterday i've been running a new setup. My last experiences with "new hardware" were with an Athlon 1400. In those days i've spend a lot of time searching for info regarding oc'ing ...
In the new DDR-era this info is quite useless, and now i'm sitting here with no knowledge and a potentially great system waiting to be oc'd.

so ... i've got a few questions and i hope that you could provide me with some answers.

Info:

P4 2800c / asus p4p800 deluxe / 2x256 corsair pc3200 xms cl2 / levicom 450watt PSU / stockcooling in chieftec case

question 1 - hyperthreading
i've been working with win2k for years, but i've heard that winxp has native HT support, where win2k sees a ht'd cpu as a dual cpu setup. I've also read somewhere that SP1 for winxp would involve a performance decrease on HT'd cpu's.
which OS will yield me the best results? and with which service pack?

question 2 - memory timings.
I'm a total noob regarding memory timings, but this corsair should provide me with some very "tight" (whatever that means) results.
Help me out here. What if I would want to OC to let's say 3 gig or 3.2gig, what should i do?

I don't know jack **** about timings, i've no idea what every settings or these 2-2-6 numbers mean. so keep it in plain english (or dutch) please.

A great link with some info regarding mem timings would be great.

1:1 / async / cas .. i have only a slight idea what all these things mean, so keep that in mind.

The Senile Doctor 27th September 2003 14:52

you WILL use windows XP and sp1, don't ask why, just do it.

for the non overclocker :
1:1 is for your setup what you need, memory will be running at 200 mhz as will the bus, if you don't plan to overclock
1:1 means sync (undivided), dividers 5:4 or 3:2 mean that your ram will be running slower then your cpu, you DO not need this when you don't overclock, at this default speed, you should set your timings to cas 2 2-6-2
HOWEVER, on an 865pe chipset, timings don't mean too much... so the difference with relaxed timings will be low, maybe 1 or 2%
the next post will go towards overclocking...

The Senile Doctor 27th September 2003 15:07

overclocking on a 865/875pe is nuggets :)

what you need to do is keep your voltages standard and whack up your fsb with 5 points everytime (that's 70 mhz on your cpu), anbd run 5 minutes of prime...
of course you will quickly crash out :)
Why?
because your ram won't be able to follow over 220 fsb...
what can you do?

well, do it as I will explain now...
enable hyperthreading, set ai overclock to manual, lock your agp and pci bus to 66 and 33, setup performance mode to turbo, (go to jumperfree config) configure your ram yourself you set your timings to cas 2.5, 3-6-3 directly, don't bother keeping them tight, you can look into that later, and you boot your cpu at a fsb of 205 with these settings and synchronous ram (= dram frequency 400), then go into windows at 205 fsb (about 2870 mhz) and run prime, do this again at 210, if this works (2940) do this again at 215...
when it stops working, and prime crashes, you have gone over what your ram can do at these relaxed timings.
is it over?
heck no!!!
you go intop bios and set memory divider to 5:4 (dram : 320) and you continu, this means you will be able to further overclock your cpu while your ram will be running slower.
On an amd systeml this would mean the system would be slower, on an 865 pe it won't, you just go ahead and set that fsb to 220 or 230 and go on overclocking..., when you would be able to reach 250 (you won't), your ram would then run 200 which it is meant to do.
normally the cpu will crap out on you at about 240 fsb... when it does, you go back 1 mhz fsb at once till the system is primestable... then you can try to get your ramtimings up.

The Senile Doctor 27th September 2003 15:18

damn this is a difficult explanation...
when you want to do it faster, just enable hyperthreading, set ai overclock to manual, lock your agp and pci bus to 66 and 33, setup performance mode to turbo, (go to jumperfree config) configure your ram yourself you set your timings to cas 2 2-6-2 directly, set the ram divider to 5:4 (dram setting 320) and then set your fsb directly to 220, that's 3080 mhz, your ram will be running 180 or so, but that won't be too much of a problem performancewise, and prime the crap, if it is stabvle for ten minutes, set it to 225 and try again, and so on, over 225, go 2 mhz at a time, 227, 229, 231

Stigmata 27th September 2003 15:56

Thanks Calantak for these great replies !

I've just installed WinXP + SP1 instead of Win2k SP4
I took a look at my temps with asus pc probe

guess what? that dual cpu thingy with win2k seems to dis-idle your cpu a lot.

win2k sp4 idle : 48
win2k sp4 prime load : ?
winxp sp1 idle : 42 (39 with just a single casefan)
winxp sp1 prime load : 55

I'll do some oc'ing now (try to hit 3gig stable) and when i've installed all my casefans i'll try and push it further.

The Senile Doctor 27th September 2003 15:57

@ stigmata : I'm online now, if you have specific problems, post them directly :)

don't look at the temps!
look at prime95 stability for 5 minutes (for starters)!!

i have had a 3.6 ghz cpu for months now, running at 60 degrees, no probs whatsoever (with the whitewater dtek blck, that'll go down for sure :D )


use the n 7-post to do it, dram at 320 timings at cas 2 , 2-6-2 right away, and go for fsb oc starting with 220, it'll go right away, and prime it for 5-10 minutes :=)


jmke 27th September 2003 15:58

wait for those casefans, because 55C is already pretty high :)
I'm writing an article concerning memory timings and the Canterwoord chipsets.. interesting results I'm having so far
, expect it online one of these days!


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