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AMD HD 4850 released, complete review

@ 2008/06/19

* The Radeon HD 4850 is an absolute monster in Call of Duty 4, matching the performance of the dual-GPU 3870 X2. That puts the 4850 comfortably ahead of the GeForce 9800 GTX with each resolution we tested. Heck, the Radeon even manages to hang with the GeForce GTX 260 until we hit a display resolution of 2560x1600. 
* In Episode Two, the Radeon HD 4850 maintains its lead over the GeForce 9800 GTX. Note the huge jump in performance over AMD's last mid-range offering, the Radeon HD 3870. 
* Quake Wars allows the 4850 to extend its lead over the GeForce 9800 GTX. The Radeon delivers an impressive 50 frames per second at 2560x1600—twice that of the 9800. More impressive, however, is the fact that the 4850 is nearly within striking distance of the GeForce GTX 260, which is double the cost. 
* Crysis gives us our first look at AMD's newest CrossFire couplet, whose performance flirts with that of the GeForce GTX 280. Running only a single card, the Radeon HD 4850 and GeForce 9800 GTX look evenly matched. The latter is quicker with Crysis' high-quality detail setting, while the former takes the lead if you crank the eye candy all the way up. 
* The Radeon HD 4850 slots in between the GeForce GTX 280 and 260 in Assassin's Creed, putting it well ahead of the 9800 GTX. Note that the Radeon has the same median low frame rate as Nvidia's latest high-end behemoth. 
* GRID finds the 4850 between Nvidia's GeForce 200 series cards yet again. Its minimum frame rate may be a little lower than that of the GTX 260, but the Radeon still has a healthy cushion over the GeForce 9800 GTX.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/23

http://www.techspot.com/review/103-asus-radeon-4850/

In an effort to remain competitive in the $200-$300 price bracket, ATI is launching yet another product from a brand new series which has been given the codename R700. The R700 will be better known as the Radeon HD 4000, and the first product from this new series that we will be looking at is called the Radeon HD 4850.

Already the Radeon HD 4850 is shaping up to be a rather interesting product as its suggested retail price has been set at just $200, right between the GeForce 8800 GT and 8800 GTS 512. With that in mind we would normally expect this new card's performance to at least exceed that of the 8800 GT, however, looking at its specifications the Radeon HD 4850 appears as it will be capable of much more than just defeating the competition's budget king.

Comment from Grated @ 2008/06/22

CUDA could be supported in the future (if AMD wants to)... Think it will depend on what physics group wins...

ATI also has the same as CUDA too... (released and announced before CUDA in fact). They can both do the same, to bad you don't have one 'language' for both... We would only benefit from it

Comment from wutske @ 2008/06/21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke

TT has no AA/AF used in all charts unless mentioned; here are the AA/AF results: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/14..._af/index.html

regarding

does 20W matter when 2x4850 cost €300 and 1xGTS 280 €500? In order to win back that €200 extra you spend on the GTX 280 you have to run your system at full load for quite some time

I don't care much about total power consumption; in order of importance:
1) Price
2) Performance
3) Noise
4) Power Usage

the GTX 280 fails at step 1) and doesn't have enough for 2) to make it worth it. Going further down the list is no longer necessary.
Building CF/SLI out of the box was never a preferred solution, and there are still plenty of games which don't scale, at all. But for the first time in years a CF product solution is actually interesting; this has not happened a lot in the past, if at all

HD4850 CF is ok for price €300, very ok for performance 2) maybe not the best for noise. having passed 1 & 2 there is no other solution which offers this performance at that price, so power consumption wise it has no contenders.

:-)

to complete your statement: It only makes sense to compare power consumption if the cards perform similarly cost approximately the same and are not overly noisy

Yups, single 4850 is a lot better, single slot, quiet, low power consumption per card ... the only that would prevent me from buying it is the lack of CUDA support (I'd realy like to play with it one day ... if I have the money to buy a new pc

)

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/21

When we told you to stay tuned after the closing of our last competition, you might've thought it would take quite a while until we had something new to give you guys - think again! Teaming up with our great friends from ATi, we're bringing you serious gaming power - 2 Teraflops of it! You might've heard about that little 4850 card that was launched yesterday? Yeah, that one, with incredible performance and a lovable price . . . well, two of them are up for grabs, for twice the fun.

http://www.rage3d.com/contests/hd4850/

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/21

we do pay taxes at our side

local store has the HD4850 for €176 ...

Comment from Xploited Titan @ 2008/06/21

:/ Nerf artificially high prices in Europe then.

Comment from Kougar @ 2008/06/21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xploited Titan

I think it's 199$ U.S. without taxes, if you add taxes, our pricing in Europe should be plus-minus correct.

Not all e-tailers charge sales tax in US. If they do not have any locations in-state then they do not need to collect tax. So if I buy one of these from Newegg, it would be tax free.

If you look at taxes, it makes the price discrepancy worse... VAT is absurdly high.

Comment from Shogun @ 2008/06/21

As reported yesterday, ATI was forced to jump the gun with their Radeon HD 4850 release after a number of retailers in the Euro zone started selling them to the public before time. As a result, we get to see how the cards perform shortly after the release of the new GeForce GTX cards.

http://www.techspot.com/news/30558-r...nchmarked.html

Comment from Xploited Titan @ 2008/06/20

I think it's 199$ U.S. without taxes, if you add taxes, our pricing in Europe should be plus-minus correct.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

199 U.S. dollars = 127.974277 Euros
we pay too much

Comment from Kougar @ 2008/06/20

I never made any claims about it mattering, I just wanted to set the record straight since some people/reivews seemed to say that the 4850 was a power miser. In Crossfire, it really is anything but.

To be honest my list of preferences would exactly match yours in the same order of importance. If you are going to make a statement about the card overall, then yes I would agree.

But that wasn't my goal with my post.

4850 costs $199, have read some $30 MIRs exist (Not been able to find). Newegg also is selling them at volume pricing, buy 2x quantity get a volume discount. Can save up to $25.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

TT has no AA/AF used in all charts unless mentioned; here are the AA/AF results: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/14..._af/index.html

regarding

Quote:

It only makes sense to compare power consumption if the cards perform similarly, so 4850 Xfire + GTX 280 would be a good matchup power-wise, but GTX 280 wins with less power/more performance.

does 20W matter when 2x4850 cost €300 and 1xGTS 280 €500? In order to win back that €200 extra you spend on the GTX 280 you have to run your system at full load for quite some time

Comment from Kougar @ 2008/06/20

Hm, I guess I did not specifically say I was talking about Crossfire in my earlier post, my apologies! I thought I had.

It only makes sense to compare power consumption if the cards perform similarly, so 4850 Xfire + GTX 280 would be a good matchup power-wise, but GTX 280 wins with less power/more performance.

Tweaktown has some interesting numbers, but they do not clearly state what AA/AF settings were used, if any. Waiting for some proper 9800GTX+, 4850, 4850 Xfire, 9800GTX+ SLI, GTX 280 reviews. If 4850 Xfire is this good, 9800GTX+ SLI may be better?

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

Kougar you should mention more clearly in your first post that you are talking about 4850 CF regarding power draw

in most games 4850 CF at 1920x1200 it's very close to GTX 280
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/14...ghz/index.html

Comment from wutske @ 2008/06/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kougar

First time I've seen it beat a GTX 280. Just one game by itself isn't enough, usually GTX 280 has enough of a lead in other games with the exception of Crysis.

I posted the link already, look at 4850 CF power draw. Exceeds that of the GTX 280, and GTX 280 does perform significantly better in most games. According to your graph even the 3870 X2 has a higher power draw than the GTX 280 lol.

Euhm, 4850 is second least consuming card and GTX280 is tirth most consuming card.

//edit: that is in the techreport review, anandtech same thing, 4850 consumes lot less compare to single GTX280. Performance is sometimes very close to the GTX280

Comment from Kougar @ 2008/06/20

First time I've seen it beat a GTX 280. Just one game by itself isn't enough, usually GTX 280 has enough of a lead in other games with the exception of Crysis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmke

come again?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/14967/10

I posted the link already, look at 4850 CF power draw. Exceeds that of the GTX 280, and GTX 280 does perform significantly better in most games. According to your graph even the 3870 X2 has a higher power draw than the GTX 280 lol.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

you made a typo

4850 Crossfire already bests the GTX 280 in some games.

close call in Crysis:

GTX 260 is not interesting product at current price, at €250-300 it will be an option... maybe. as 9800GX2 is not far off in price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kougar

What I don't understand is why people are saying 4850 consumes less power... it consumes MORE power than a single GTX 280 while offering less performance! http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3338&p=5

come again?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/14967/10

Comment from Kougar @ 2008/06/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xploited Titan

Not sure they gonna smoke the GT280 as easily as you make it appear.

Don't forget drivers got a big influence as well in performance and quality.

And when you see AMD still isn't able to give AA support in DX10 games, it makes me wonder how they gonna hope to beat nVidia for now.

Now, on another note, seems AMD has been able to contain power consumption much better than nVidia. This might be appreciated alot by HTPC owners who still want to be able to play high-end games on their tele.

Both sides are going to have improved drivers as time goes on.

Secondly, AA is not an issue anymore if you look at the results.

Third, the 4850 is as good as the 9800GTX+. It compares very favorably, winning as many as it loses. Two 9800GTX cards will outperform the GTX 280, therefore two 4870 cards should do so quite easily. 4850 Crossfire already bests the GTX 260 in some games.

What I don't understand is why people are saying 4850 consumes less power... it consumes MORE power than a single GTX 280 while offering less performance! http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3338&p=5

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

MSI unveils the MSI R4850-T2D512 and soon the MSI R4870-T2D512 will also be launched. The graphics cards are based on the ATI R4870 and R4850 55nm GPU’s and support the DirectX 10.1 framework of Windows Vista Service Pack 1. Both graphic cards are equipped with 800 stream processors which achieve the unprecedented level teraflop (1000Gflops) computing capability. This is 10 times higher than any high-end CPU. The MSI R4870-T2D512 is the first graphic card equipped with GDDR5, also both cards support UVD 2.0 video decode, ATI PowerPlay power-saving technology and CrossFireX™ technology.

http://www.msi.eu/news/press/2008/PR.../PR_R4800.html

Comment from Xploited Titan @ 2008/06/20

And my Ultra 1kW?

On another note, don't need crossfire, still using an aging 19" LCD.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

OCZ Powerstream 1000W PSU is not enough to run their HD4850 in CF :/

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3338

For starters, the Radeon HD 4850 looks to be the best buy at $199, even better than NVIDIA's price-dropped GeForce 9800 GTX. What's also unbelievable is that compared to the 4850, our beloved GeForce 8800 GT seems downright slow in a number of benchmarks - and the 8800 GT is only 8 months old. It's also very refreshing to see this sort of competitive pressure at such a reasonable price point, while it's fun to write about 1.4 billion transistor GPUs it's a dream come true to be able to write about this type of performance at under $200.

Take two 4850s, put them together and now you've got something even faster than NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 280 in most cases. It shouldn't be too surprising since 8800 GT SLI and 9800 GX2 both outperform the GTX 280 as well.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

that program gives devs access to the hardware and direct link with NVIDIA techs to make sure the game works/looks/plays as intended on their hardware. However it doesn't necessarily mean that the game features PhyicsX

Comment from Xploited Titan @ 2008/06/20

Most games are nVidia "the way it's meant to be played", nowadays, no?

(sorry, spending more time watching animes than playing myself

)

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

means that devs who use Havok can integrate gameplay changing effects without worry that somebody can't play it; on the other hand Physics effects will be bound to being *bling* as using it for gameplay would make the game not playable on all configs

Comment from Xploited Titan @ 2008/06/20

Just means you'll have no or less performance loss with Physics than with Havok for the same result. Or did I miss something?

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

Havok = CPU based = everybody has one = win
Physics = HW based = not everybody has it = used for *bling*

Comment from Xploited Titan @ 2008/06/20

Just a little note: GTX 2xx series has built-in Physics, even though the 98xx series can do it as well, but less proficiently. I'm wondering if AMD can do that as well.

They got alot less transistors on their 48xx series, so I guess they will be drowned when you do high res gaming full options + physics.

Of course, the physics shown by Ageia didn't thrill me at all, but I think that once CUDA has settled in, we'll have even nicer gaming experiences.

I'm not trying to be a nVidia fanboy, but I am reserved towards the 48xx-hype.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

http://amdzone.com/index.php/reviews...radeon-hd-4850

Our first impression of this card in the limited time we had is that it is amazing ATI put so much power into a single slot card. It does appear to run very hot, at around 155 degrees Fahrenheit by our initial tests but it is a single slot card and we can say the fastest single slot card on the market. A bigger heatsink/fan could have helped but it seems to be quite a powerful package for an amazing price.

Comment from Massman @ 2008/06/20

So where do I begin with this card? I am left speechless because the HD4850 blew past my expectations! Now, don't get me wrong - I had high hopes for the HD4800 series cards, and strongly wanted them to give Nvidia a run for their money so that the competition stays high, which benefits consumers. However, this review opened my eyes to a new love of ATI products. Being a reviewer, you have to go into a product with an open mind and unbiased opinion, which is what I did - and I was impressed. The HD4850 pushed passed many mainstream cards that are used today, and even kicked on the heels of Nvidia's newest beast, the GTX 280. Ok, so you say it caught up, but didn't take it over - but with a price tag of $199, versus the GTX 280's very high price of $649.99, this is a no-brainier. I mean, you can get three of these cards for the cost of just one GTX 280 and CrossFire them.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...rcolor_hd4850/

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/20

single GPU will perform in all games; multi-GPU heavily relies on SLI/CF scaling, without it your "fast" card becomes only half as speedy

Comment from Xploited Titan @ 2008/06/20

Comment from Kougar @ 2008/06/20

Will be interesting once ALL the cards come on the table. 4870 and 4870 with GDDR5...

GTX 280 will be in trouble when R700 launches... R700= 4870 X2. I suspect R700 is going to smoke GTX 280, and do so at a cheaper price even.

Comment from jmke @ 2008/06/19

as it stands, 4850 wipes the floor with the 9800GTX, beating it in most of the games, coming close to the GTX 260 in some; and best of all: cheaper than the 9800GTX, almost on par, price wise, with the 8800 GT 512Mb! In EU at least the HD 4850 can be had for ~€150!

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