Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 M0 Stepping CPU Review

CPU by SidneyWong @ 2007-10-16

When Geeks Computer Parts lists Intel E4300, E4400, and E4500 within $1 difference in price ($124), I could not help to request the E4500 for a spin. Intel E4500 is with new M0 stepping rather than previous L2 stepping. The new stepping has lower range of CPU voltage (Vcore). Since not many reviews are out with this particular processor, I thought it would be interesting to find out how the new stepping differs from the old.

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Introduction

Introduction:

Intel Core 2 Duo does not really need much of an introduction at this time more than a year after its d├ębut. The CPU price war and further price reduction last July together with the collapse of DDR2 price in recent months has become a little paradise for computer shoppers. So much so, the E4500 has not even touched the interest of many hardware review sites with 1333FSB, Quad Cores and X38 chipset dominate most of the headlines.

However, with $1 price difference; E4300, E4400, and E4500 differ only in multipliers of 9, 10 and 11 respectively may be worthy to look into. Particularly, the new M0 stepping found in all E4500.

Madshrimps (c)


Madshrimps (c)


Madshrimps (c)
CPUID v.1.41 reports the CPU voltage pretty much right on


Madshrimps (c)Madshrimps (c)
E4400 L2 on the left; E4500 M0 on the right


Madshrimps (c)


While I was looking for the processor S-spec, I was surprised to find out Intel has changed almost all the C2D S-spec core Voltage to read 0.85 to 1.5V. Interesting! I snapped a few screen shots for keep sake.

I've read a couple quick snaps on how well the E4500 overclocks; so well that it was hard to believe. Yet, another reported disappointing result. Let's find out, shall we?

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Comment from Reefa_Madness @ 2007/10/17
Enjoyed the review. Seems like you just about can't go wrong with any of the C2Ds. I personally am waiting to test an E4600 on an ASRock Conroe865PE motherboard. I believe that the 12 multi will match up perfectly with that board. The board has a FSB limit at or near 300 and with the higher multi speeds in excess of 3.0GHz should be attainable...paired up with some TCCD or BH-5, that should make for some interesting comparisons to newer chipsets.

I am also very interested in finding out more about this:

A spreadsheet with built-in Macro that calculates VID locations depending on varies default vcore to the desire increase. I know most enthusiasts will use motherboards that will have at least some sort of vcore increment, but most low end boards don't and some PC users including myself are "cheap" or "challenging" enough not to have one. This table will sure come in handy. I will leave a link at our forum for those who are interested in keeping a copy; many thanks to the guy who wrote the table.

Is a link available?
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/10/17
Comment from Reefa_Madness @ 2007/10/17
Not for me...I'm I doing something wrong here?


Reefa_Madness, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.


I guess I'll have to get Keith Suppe to email me a copy.
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/10/17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefa_Madness View Post
Not for me...I'm I doing something wrong here?


Reefa_Madness, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.


I guess I'll have to get Keith Suppe to email me a copy.
Did you log on with your user ID?
Comment from Reefa_Madness @ 2007/10/17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
Did you log on with your user ID?
Yes, please note that the reply is addressed to me, "Reefa_Madness".

Perhaps there is a minimum post count to access that area?
Comment from jmke @ 2007/10/17
Sidney attached the file in our secure forums, moved it to the public area, it should work now, check his original post
http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/157535-post3.html
Comment from Reefa_Madness @ 2007/10/17
Thank you, jmke,...it does indeed work now.
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/10/17
Comment from Reefa_Madness @ 2007/10/18
Actually, this is the one that I had in mind...

Specs per a random news article that I googled (Overclock3D.net)

In October, Intel will launch the entry-level Core 2 Duo E4600 processor with 2.4GHz frequency, 2MB L2 cache, 800MHz FSB and a price of US$133. The previous E4500 will drop from US$133 to US$113, while E4400 and 4300 fade out the market, added the sources.


Your picture of a 4600, with the 512KB cache and that week 23 of 06 date is very interesting...must be a real early sample.
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/10/18
Interesting indeed, especially it came from China with $RMB 420 price stated in the article.

Exchange rate as of late RMB$ 7.60 to US$1.
Comment from Reefa_Madness @ 2007/10/18
If my math works out correctly, that's 420/7.6 = 55.26 USD.


That doesn't seem to be the same proc as the recently released E4600, nor the same line of procs as the one you just reviewed, does it?
Comment from Reefa_Madness @ 2007/10/20
SL9R5....I think not. Sidney, I think you're trying to mess with me.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/

"sSpec Number: SL9R5


(example = SL77R)Product Order Code


The sSpec number entered does not match an Intel® processor. Please check that the number was entered correctly and try again."
Comment from bdubslawman @ 2007/10/24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmke View Post
...Intel E4500 is with new M0 stepping rather than previous L2 stepping. The new stepping has lower range of CPU voltage (Vcore). Since not many reviews are out with this particular processor, I thought it would be interesting to find out how the new stepping differs from the old.
http //www madshrimps be/gotoartik.php?articID=629
Wow! Great article, had to join up to both say thank you & to ask some questions. I was aware of pin modding but I didn't know V-Core could be safely manipulated that way. I got nostalgic and built a system using a Gigabyte 81865GME-775-RH board it's AGP-so I can use my X800XT all in wonder card & a C2D with old DDR memory. Bought a E4400 (1.35V) and I thought I would get a little bit better overclock than I am (only FSB is adjustable).
Are the new MO stepping & L2 stepping both compatible with these pin mods?
Are the new MO default voltages lower than 1.35V?
Are these valid/correct pin mods as well for E2160, E2180, E2200, and the E6600, E6750?
----------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
Enjoy - source:
http //forums vr-zone com/showthread.php?t=188787
The links in the VR-Zone & the XML spread sheet are great!
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/10/24
We did that with E4400 also.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=610

And, the use of kitchen alum foil and AS5 for "glue" or "hold down".

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f...-review-36540/
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/10/29
The use of Notebook Hardware Control is nice but it is not without flaw on desktop. It disables Windows XP power scheme 'powercfg' in windows registry. It took me hours to find this out when powercfg locks on only "scheme 0" other power schemes 1,2,3,4 and 5 are disabled.

It came to my attention when WinDVD power scheme could not be used.
Comment from Chrisv006 @ 2007/11/16
Hey all -

I preformed an OC to 266 FSB and it did not pass stability test (blue screen). I came here and got the volt spreadsheet. When I put in my
stock voltage (1.185) and my desired voltage it shows me that picture...

I connect the ones it says connect and I hide the ones that are 'hidden land' with some tape right? When I tried that, it booted but the FSB was back down to 200mhz.

I just undid all mods and it passed stability...

Can anyone help me?
Comment from jmke @ 2007/11/16
so after you did the mod, and removed it, you can now OC to 266 with stability?
Comment from Chrisv006 @ 2007/11/16
No..Sorry the wording is off...

It is stable at its stock speed of 200mhz.

When I did an OC to 266 it got unstable, so I tried the volt mod and it
just booted back at 200mhz...

So I just undid all mods and it is stock again.

I would like to keep it at 266mhz stable but I need a small voltage increase to do so. I got that spreadsheet (earlier in this thread) and I followed instructions for an increase. What I need to know is, what does 'Hidden Land' mean? On the sheet it shows pins to be connected and then some maroon colored pins called 'hidden land'. Do i just cover those up with some electrical tape?

Edit - I would really like to see a picture of the chip with the mod done or a schmatic of the mod so I know im doing the right thing. The spreadsheet does not have a 1.185 volt setting either
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/16
When you said the spreadsheet did not have 1.185 volt (standard or default), you did not read it correctly. There are 4 workbooks in the Excel file; all possible default voltages are listed in the standard workbook (use one that is closest) There is no way you would have the correct pin mod if you don't put in the correct default voltage.

Yes, hidden = taped or insulated.

It works, you just have to read spreadsheet carefully and use the macro correctly.


Default voltage selectionm, your 1.185 is there.


Your default 1.185 raised to 1.35 Pin Mod.
Comment from jmke @ 2007/11/16
in Excel 2007 that macro doesn't seem to work :/
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/16
Don't have MSoffice2007; works in MSoffice XP and MSoffice 2003.

2003 Excel converts to 2007; see attach error.

Anyway, the attached Excel is in 2007, see if it works.

Nope, can't upload with .xlsx from Excel 07.
Comment from Chrisv006 @ 2007/11/16
Yeah Im not seeing it...

But those pictures you posted are correct for my chip?

If they are I will give it another go this afternoon and see if it wants to work.

Thanks,
Chris
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/16
Yes, the photos I just uploaded are based on 1.185 default and kicks up to 1.350. Let us know if you can get to 266FSB.
You may want to use CPUID version 1.41 to check CPU voltage.
Comment from Chrisv006 @ 2007/11/16
I dont know why I couldnt get that picture..

When I enter 1.1875 as default (closest) to go up to 1.35, I
get this picture...Wish I could do what you did too so I could
see it.

I will connect those two pins tonight and redo the 266fsb mod
and report my results.
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/16
Something is not right ..... I am getting the same you have also after you posted yours. Yeah, let us know what you read from CPUID.
Comment from Chrisv006 @ 2007/11/17
Ok guys...

I just got home...heres the CpuID straight off CPUZ.
As far as I can tell - I can try the 1.1750, 1.8750 and 1.20 and see
which works?

What do you think?
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/17
Turn off Speedstep until you are done ocing; check CPUID again.
You have a 6x multi on the screen.
Comment from Chrisv006 @ 2007/11/17
I got 2900mhz at 11x multi.

Only issue, when I try every combo of volt mod I
previously listed - there is no voltage increase and
the FSB resets its self to 200mhz.

I am going to leave it alone at this point, and get a new
wolfbane chip when it comes out in a couple months.

Thanks all,
Chris
Comment from bdubslawman @ 2007/11/20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisv006 View Post
I got 2900mhz at 11x multi.
Only issue, when I try every combo of volt mod I
previously listed - there is no voltage increase and
the FSB resets its self to 200mhz.
I am going to leave it alone at this point, and get a new
wolfbane chip when it comes out in a couple months.
Thanks all,
Chris
Just checking back into the thread via email that I got. So Chris ultimately you are still running it at the default V-Core ~1.185V and you just upped your Multiplier to 11X, and then set your FSB to 266? Did you pick that number at random or did you MOBO have a setting for 266 b/c of the other processors E6000's that run at that speed? If the answers are there they just flew over my head sorry for the 3rd degree!
Stange that it didn't auto detect the 11x before or did it? What changed, to make it stable at that FSB do you think?
Once you are done you can / should re-enable speedstep. There is no reason for the system to have to run constantly now at full speed...when it doesn't
need to.
-------------------------------------
Is the aluminum foil some of you all used having any problem? I was thinking about getting a pen, but AL foil seems easy to remove. You just used standard Arctic Silver 5 not the adhesive version, right?
-----------------------------
I ordered my E4400 about a month b-4 the M0's came out. I got the L2 version. The Gigabyte board has no V-Core adjustment only FSB and a few of the memory settings. I was a little disappointed that I have only been able to run it at 190 FSB to get it stable enough to run OCCT, Prime 95, etcetera for hours.
PC Wizard & OCCT list V-Core at 1.28 Volts at idle. I think my default is 1.325 although all I see on the retail box is 1.35 max. Temperatures with both cores at 100% run at 50-51 degrees C with the affordable Cooler Master HS/fan; BIOS is flashed to most recent. If the processor was yours what would you all set your voltage to, b4 OCing? I'd like to reach 275 FSB or more, 300 FSB would be a great bonus (Bios allows up to 350 FSB).
-What would you consider too much voltage for the pin mod?
-If my default Voltage is 1.325 then is that the number I should keep in mind as far as how much I pin mod up to or should I think of the 1.28V which the programs are reading as the starting point?
-I don't mean as far as the spread sheet calculation is concerned just in terms of how much voltage is too much? Do I consider a 1.45 Volts as just that 1.45 Volts; or as the 1.40 Volts or less that it is likely to be and reported by CPU-Z and other programs?
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/20
E4400 is tested here http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=610

This CPU requires 1.55v to get to 3.27Ghz; 1.4v @3Ghz and 1.38 with vdroop, down to 1.35 during heavy load. Stock Cooler can handle 1.4v at 3Ghz easily.
Comment from bdubslawman @ 2007/11/21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
E4400 is tested here (Cant post URL's)

This CPU requires 1.55v to get to 3.27Ghz; 1.4v @3Ghz and 1.38 with vdroop, down to 1.35 during heavy load. Stock Cooler can handle 1.4v at 3Ghz easily.
Thank you. I did read that link several times I guess what I am asking is more your personal preference....

I read the articles at Tom's Hardware...and I know that they are a paler shadow of the tech site they used to be but this line....
"We can't really recommend running a 65-nm processor at a voltage this high anyway, since we can't rule out the possibility that the core could be damaged beyond repair over the course of time due to electron migration. Simply put, you run the risk that the conducting paths inside the CPU could literally be ablated and thus destroyed by ion migration. The result is that one day, the computer suddenly shuts down and will never start up again with that CPU. We only ran our CPU at these speeds for a short while to determine its performance at these settings. On the other hand, some models may very well run at such high speeds without even needing the slightest core voltage tweak."

They have this Caveat EVERY TIME they OVERVOLT To 1.4Volts & ABOVE. Even though I think this statement is overly cautious, I was looking for personal thoughts....like "as a general rule I never go beyond 1.## volts on a chip I want to keep for three years or more" (that kind of thing). I haven't got my OC foundation fully formed yet.
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/21
1.4v at BIOS here running 3Ghz on E4400 daily use because of vdroop on that particular motherboard. In fact, vdroop is built into the design to prevent sudden power surge when CPU process drops. The same on E4500, 1.4v at 3.2Ghz. I too keep my CPU way over 4 years.

Understanding the law of diminishing return is always a good thing (virtual).
Comment from bdubslawman @ 2007/11/21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
1.4v at BIOS here running 3Ghz on E4400 daily use because of vdroop on that particular motherboard. In fact, vdroop is built into the design to prevent sudden power surge when CPU process drops. The same on E4500, 1.4v at 3.2Ghz. I too keep my CPU way over 4 years.

Understanding the law of diminishing return is always a good thing (virtual).
Thank you, again. Yes, with OC'ing if I am not careful in the heat of battle I can get a little greedy, but in a calm outside state I am very conservative. and RESPECT THE LAW. I am wondering if I did a pin mod for 266Mhz FSB would/should the board automatically kick up the voltage therefore doing some of the work for me, given my problem reaching even stock FSB my current 190FSB stably at posted V-Core of 1.28Volts?
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/21
Quote:
I am wondering if I did a pin mod for 266Mhz FSB would/should the board automatically kick up the voltage
No, they are two entirely different things.
Comment from bdubslawman @ 2007/11/21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
No, they are two entirely different things.
My board will boot my chip in the current unmodded state at 250Mhz (that's boot into XP but won't pass Bmarks) but no higher. So likely if I did the 266Mhz pin mod ONLY, I would not get a boot or at best just a boot without further voltage Pin modding?
Comment from Sidney @ 2007/11/21
Okay, under the condition you mentioned, it should work only if your mb supports 266FSB CPU. What MB do you have?
Comment from bdubslawman @ 2007/11/21
Gigabyte 8I865GME-775-RH, yes it supports 266Mhz processors. It has them listed on the Gigabyte's mobo product page and specifically mentions they are supported. There is also a special setting in the BIOS if the processor is a default 266Mhz...It kept prompting me that it detected a C2Duo processor and asked if I wanted to enable this 266 feature. Tried it once for S4ITs & Giggles on the unmodded E4400 but had to reset.
The BIOS Allows adjustment from 100 - 350 FSB.

 

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